Can a Fire Tornado Flip an 8 Ton Truck?

[WWJR]

TL;DR Summary

Could a fire tornado of 60m/s produce enough force to flip an 8000kg stationary object with the dimensions of a fire truck?

Posting from over here in Australia, we've been going through some nasty bushfires and on the news I saw a report of a fire truck that had a full tank of water get flipped on its side and resulting in one fire fighter losing his life - apparently a fire tornado flipped the truck.

My question stems from suspicion as I wouldn't think a fire tornado, especially a new one ( apparently it just whirled up next to the truck out of nowhere) would have enough force to flip an 8 Ton Object that is stationary on flat ground.

Fire tornados generally don't exceed speeds of around 64m/s which it would be safe to assume this was lesser in speed due to it not being huge in scale of fire tornados.

This is where I get lost though, my knowledge on actual equations in physics is about as broad as whatever I remember from my high school physics class about a decade ago.

So, I am not asking that someone has to explain if it could or couldn't step by step (you can if you want), but mathematically could a moderate fire tornado produce enough force to flip a stationary 8000KG object with the dimensions of a fire truck on flat stable ground?

I'm not even sure this would be the right place to ask such question but I appreciate any replies in advance.

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to the PF.

Very sorry what you are going through with all of the bush fires. We have a thread running about the devastation elsewhere here on the PF. (I'll post a link after I reply to your question)

So probably a good first approximation to answering your question would be to read about the forces that can be generated by various strength tornadoes. Have you tried looking into such links? If so, could you post them here to help us try to address your question? Thanks.

EDIT/ADD -- Also, if you could link to the news stories about that incident, that may help us as well. Maybe not though, because news stories are often inaccurate when it comes to scientific details.

 

[berkeman]

The thread I mentioned about the fires: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/australias-drought-and-bushfires-a-personal-view.981497/

 

[davenn]

Summary:: Could a fire tornado of 60m/s produce enough force to flip an 8000kg stationary object with the dimensions of a fire truck?

My question stems from suspicion as I wouldn't think a fire tornado, especially a new one ( apparently it just whirled up next to the truck out of nowhere) would have enough force to flip an 8 Ton Object that is stationary on flat ground.

Fire tornados generally don't exceed speeds of around 64m/s which it would be safe to assume this was lesser in speed due to it not being huge in scale of fire tornados.

Hi @WWJR from Dave in Sydney

You obviously didn't get to hear all the report on the event. This wasn't just some small fire-nado that is often seen accompanying
large fires. This was an extreme fire generated weather event.
Here is the ABC (Australian Broadcasting ...) news report which is pretty much what I heard on TV new last nite and this morning.
Some of the main bit quoted

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-31/rfs-volunteer-firefighter-dies-in-truck-rollover/11833634

NSW RFS district manager Superintendent Patrick Westwood said Mr McPaul was "doing everything right" when tragedy struck.
He and two others had been mustering cattle caught in a paddock on flat ground.
"The crew decided to move away from that area and, quite unexpectedly, very suddenly, they experienced extreme winds and what could only be described as a fire tornado that lifted the back of the truck, fully inverted it and landed it on its roof, trapping three people, three crew that is, and unfortunately, one of them fatally," Superintendent Westwood said.
"The driver was a veteran captain of 35 years-plus experience.
"He thought he was in the right spot — as he was, from what I can understand — and just this freakish weather event that would have to be seen to be believed. Even then, other veteran firefighters don't believe what they saw, [it] engulfed that vehicle with flame, fire, and strong winds and literally picked up an 8-tonne truck and flipped it over."
...
Bushfire created its own storm
Superintendent Westwood said the fire had "created its own weather system," known as a pyrocumulus cloud, leading up to the incident.
"That cloud became very unstable," he said.
"It had a height of around about 8,000 metres and unfortunately, it appears to have collapsed during yesterday's deteriorating weather, causing erratic fire behaviour and erratic winds at the foot of the fire in all directions."
He said crews were pulled back to safe ground, but Mr McPaul and his fellow volunteers were caught up in the weather system.
A second vehicle was also blown over in the "same extraordinary weather event".
"On that same fire, through the same weather event, we also saw another vehicle and a couple of firefighters enveloped by flames," Commissioner Fitzsimmons said.
He said two firefighters received face and airway burns.
One of them was sedated and both were flown to treatment at a Sydney hospital.
"As everyone would understand this is a very, very sad day for the NSW RFS family locally and across the state," Superintendent Westwood said

What occurred is akin to a thunderstorm down/micro-burst that can knock aircraft from the sky, destroy buildings and vehicles
They can have very strong and localised winds associated with them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downburst

https://www.weather.gov/bmx/outreach_microburstsDave

 

[Nik_2213]

Like any 'local' tornado that can tear roofs off houses & malls, slurp ponds and their contents unto 'raining frogs', the forces are remarkable.

Also, I must wonder if the twister's tugging has upset driver feedback. Had a friend roll his small car when corrugations hit resonant frequency of his steering, literally tore car from his control...

Apologies for terse reply as BossCat is 'helping' me type, has erased three versions already...

 

[256bits]

I looked up and got the Wiki article on fire whirl.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_whirl
Notably some examples were given.
One from Australia 2003,
Flashover of 300 acres in 0.04 seconds - winds 160 mph, 93mph vertical - that's something fierce and quick.

During the 2003 Canberra bushfires in Canberra, Australia a violent firewhirl was documented. It was calculated to have horizontal winds of 160 mph (260 km/h) and vertical air speed of 93 mph (150 km/h), causing the flashover of 300 acres (120 ha) in 0.04 seconds.[21] It was the first known firewhirl in Australia to have EF3 wind speeds on the Enhanced Fujita scale.

They must have been caught in something like above, with no chance to avoid.

Summary:: Could a fire tornado of 60m/s produce enough force to flip an 8000kg stationary object with the dimensions of a fire truck?

Fire tornados generally don't exceed speeds of around 64m/s which it would be safe to assume this was lesser in speed due to it not being huge in scale of fire tornados.