Choosing between UC Berkeley and Caltech - Math

[Galois314]

I am a 12th grader and I got an email from UC Berkeley today that I have been accepted there. A month ago, I was also accepted at Caltech. I'm still waiting to hear from MIT, Harvard, Princeton and Stanford.

I want to study Mathematics, but I also interested in theoretical physics a lot, so I am thinking of maybe focusing on math topics that could allow me to work in GR, BSM, QFT and such.

I know that UC Berkeley and Caltech are the polar opposites from a student experience standpoint - huge state school vs. small STEM-focused school, etc., but both of them are rated really high, like top 5, in the country for math. From an academic standpoint, does anyone have any advice on pros and cons? I am hopeful that I will get accepted at Princeton or Harvard, so I may have a few more decisions to make in the coming month but for now, I am try to choose between these two.

Thanks!

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Which one will allow you to graduate with less debt?

 

[Galois314]

Thanks, Dr. Courtney!

The costs are pretty similar for an out of state student, although Berkeley may be a bit less overall. I haven't checked cost of living for Berkeley versus Pasadena.

I do have an interview early next month for a fellowship at Berkeley. If I get it, then that may help, although the $ amount is not huge. I think the fellowship allows priority in registering for classes, etc., which may be good in a large school like Berkeley.

I haven't heard anything about financial aid from Caltech, although they don't do merit based scholarships, and need-based scholarships are not announced until mid March or so.

So, I guess I will wait and see what transpires in my interview. I assume that from an academic standpoint, they are both excellent.

 

[mathwonk]

The first two answers by actual students linked below say quite well. some things about Berkeley I believe are true, (I myself would not want to go there nor send my child if he is unsure about it. When I visited a friend on staff there once, the adjoining office holder screamed at a student seeking help to "get out" and come back during office hours - unheard of level of hostility compared to that at my school. During a 4 month long visit another time, I saw grad students go on strike because they were so poorly paid and treated. I could not enter the library without crossing a picket line. High levels of tension between police and students. A student was murdered during a mugging a block off campus, ...)

https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-li...ty-of-California-Berkeley-as-an-undergraduate

 

[Galois314]

Well, I was awarded the Regents and Chancellor's Scholarship at Berkeley - just got the news today. It's their highest scholarship - $30K per year. It cuts my college costs in half as I am out of state. So, from a financial standpoint, Berkeley is definitely much less expensive. I just have to decide on whether I prefer the intimate atmosphere of Caltech versus the large size of Berkeley. Caltech incoming freshman class size is about 230, Berkeley is 15,000, so it's really two entirely different worlds. I am waitlisted at MIT and Princeton and didn't get accepted at Harvard, so I think I'm destined to stay as a West Coaster lol.. will hear from Stanford on Sunday.

I'll be visiting Caltech next month for their prefrosh weekend, so I'll get to stay at one of the houses and really experience what it is like. I was at Berkeley from my scholarship interview last month and I liked the campus overall but didn't get to spend too much time there. Everything I have heard about Caltech is about how helpful and approachable and available the TAs and professors are. I suspect Berkeley, with its size is going to be less so.

 

[berkeman]

Congrats @Galois314 -- Well Done!

 

[F=qE]

Congrats on the exciting options ahead of you. I saw this thread a couple times and since it was bumped recently, perhaps I will add some thoughts for you as I have a unique place in this question.

As you suspect, Berkeley's classes are much much bigger than Caltech's. This is especially true of the entry level 'Physics 7A/B' and lesser so of the 'Physics 7C' courses at Berkeley. There might be 3 lectures of Physics 7A per semester and each lecture might have 400 or 500 students in it. But alas, it is not that bad, hope is not lost. How it works is each set of lectures has their own TA's and there might be 20 different TA sections called 'discussion' sections where you meet outside of lecture. So your discussion section might only have 20 other students in it with the TA. Also, once you get to your junior and senior level physics courses, the classes are 5 or 10 times smaller. Still not as small as courses at Caltech, but they are not the same massive lecture hall type courses. The required upper division physics courses at Caltech might have 40 or 50 students in them... it's not like there are only 5 students in them. But you certainly can find courses at Caltech where there are 5 or less students being lecture to by a professor... ;)

As you say, these schools are polar opposites, with the exception that they are both extremely top notch for math and science. If I was you, I would make the decision based on which campus and atmosphere I like better and I would try to think about what future job I might want to have some day. Which campus do you see yourself more at home at? Some things that might make the decision easier might be answering these rhetorical questions to yourself... Do you fit in with Caltech's student culture? (It's very unique and not for everyone. If you don't like Caltech's student culture, you will be miserable when you combine a culture you don't like + the extremely demanding course load.) Do you want to work in academia or industry some day? Are you dead set on your major or is there a chance you might want to change it? Do you want the more traditional American college experience? Some lesser thoughts to consider (maybe you wouldn't consider them but it's worth mentioning once)... crime rates around the campuses, political activism.

Best of luck in your decision!

 

[IGU]

Attending pre-frosh weekend at Caltech will make it completely obvious to you whether it's the right place for you. I'll be curious as to how you react to it. In any case, the experience is nothing like Berkeley or Stanford. Caltech is extreme, and populated by many extreme people. The experience is intense in many ways.

 

[Dr.D]

The money is a big draw towards Berkeley, but I would choose CalTech any day of the week. I think it will offer a vastly superior education, and that is the key thing at this point.

 

[robphy]

You could mention to Caltech what UCBerkeley has offered.
They may be willing to find some additional financial support for you.
At the worst, they'll say "no, they can't offer any more".

 

[Galois314]

If I was you, I would make the decision based on which campus and atmosphere I like better and I would try to think about what future job I might want to have some day. Which campus do you see yourself more at home at? Some things that might make the decision easier might be answering these rhetorical questions to yourself... Do you fit in with Caltech's student culture? (It's very unique and not for everyone. If you don't like Caltech's student culture, you will be miserable when you combine a culture you don't like + the extremely demanding course load.) Do you want to work in academia or industry some day? Are you dead set on your major or is there a chance you might want to change it?

Thanks! I visited Caltech last fall and really liked the campus and the houses. Berkeley was beautiful but huge and busy. I am a bit shy and reserved and I don't want to get lost in the crowd - everyone seems to suggest that Berkeley is sink-or-swim. You've got to be a go-getter and pushy to get things done.

I am pretty much set on my major. I want to study math and take enough physics classes to perhaps go to grad school in theoretical physics. Or maybe I will continue in math. It's going to be one or the other (or both). :) I want to hopefully end up in academia and/or research. I am not interested in industrial R&D or wall street quant work or anything of that nature.

Attending pre-frosh weekend at Caltech will make it completely obvious to you whether it's the right place for you. I'll be curious as to how you react to it. In any case, the experience is nothing like Berkeley or Stanford. Caltech is extreme, and populated by many extreme people. The experience is intense in many ways.

Yes, I will be attening the prefrosh weekend in late April. I know Caltech is going to be intense - I am both nervous and excited about it.

The money is a big draw towards Berkeley, but I would choose CalTech any day of the week. I think it will offer a vastly superior education, and that is the key thing at this point.

The money is certainly good, but my family has the good fortune of being reasonably affluent, so it isn't a decision-maker. It's just icing on the cake.

You could mention to Caltech what UCBerkeley has offered.
They may be willing to find some additional financial support for you.
At the worst, they'll say "no, they can't offer any more".

I'll call them, although their website clearly states that they don't have merit based scholarships, only need-based.