Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

[Cyrus]

Cyrus - He was tortured for five and a half years. You got to at least allow for a little stiffness. :-)
And you are inside his head, and you know there is evil within?

...spare me the sob story. The main point of my complaint was not his stiffness.

 

[B. Elliott]

Also, her speech tonight bettered my opinion of her by a great deal. I do disagree with a few of her opinions, but in the real world, no one will ever have stances that everyone everywhere agrees on. There will always be differences.

Other than her strong pro-life stance, overall, I like her views.

 

[Nesiox]

Start small, go BIG. I guess that is the line of thinking from his post. Anyway, I don't dislike Palin as a person, but I disagree with her and McCain's views. I don't want Creationism to be taught in schools, and some other views that are debatable like prohibiting SCR. It should be accepted and funded not prohibited. McCain was a good candidate, but he has been wrapped around Bush's finger so long, I think he actually disregarded his old views as dirt. That's peer pressure for you.

 

[Cyrus]

Also, her speech tonight bettered my opinion of her by a great deal. I do disagree with a few of her opinions, but in the real world, no one will ever have stances that everyone everywhere agrees on. There will always be differences.

Other than her strong pro-life stance, overall, I like her views.

Could you please tell me what you like about her views? I'm curious to know.

 

[B. Elliott]

That's basically saying, well she doesn't have any idea what she's doing BUTTTTTTT she does learn things quickly...

That's why people say: you can't put a price on experience.

Okay, so she can adapt to what's thrown at her at a small town. How does that have any bearing on a national/global scope?

How can you sit here and praise a woman that wants to teach against evolution in schools?

That was just one persons opinion of her. I'm saying she's well experienced as a leader. More so than one person who s currently running for the Presidential position...

Many people may also doubt her ability as running for VP. IMO, Palin being in the singular liable position as Mayor of a town for six years, along with holding the singular liable position as governor of Alaska from '06 to present, shows better leadership and governmental skill than a Junior Senator who has simply shared responsibility with other numerous senators. One who has never had complete responsibly hanging over his head, and his head alone.

Sarah Palin stepped up to the plate and led with complete responsibility on herself as the leader.

 

[castlegates]

...spare me the sob story. The main point of my complaint was not his stiffness.

So you are inside his head, and you know that everything he did in the video was fake?

 

[B. Elliott]

Could you please tell me what you like about her views? I'm curious to know.

I'd rather not. Since I'm so bad with wording and conveying opinion, i'll just open up a can of worms and put my foot in my mouth. My decisions typically speak louder than my words.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I heard a bit of her speech a little while ago. All I heard was a bunch of the usual pro McCain anti Obama rhetoric so I turned it off.

She seems to need an aweful lot of defending and I am still out on whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. People like to root for and defend the underdog so the attacks may just bring out more conservatives who wish to stand up for her. Or maybe they will actually see how easily she can be attacked as a bad sign.

Rush was defending her the other morning by saying Obama's campaign are shameful. He couldn't keep that up while admiting that Obama said family should be kept out of this so he didn't mention it and instead pulled a quote from a few months ago where Obama described the possibility of one of his daughter's getting pregnant as being "punished" and contrasted this with the Palin family statement on her daughter's pregnancy.

I heard a silly quote from McCain too...

Alaska is right next to Russia, and she understands that. Senator Obama has never even been south of our border. I mean please!

I'm sure he's probably never seen the donkey show either but I have no idea what it has to do with anything unless McCain is trying to insinuate that Obama has spent no time abroad. And some people like to say he doesn't do that sort of thing.

 

[LowlyPion]

Sarah Palin stepped up to the plate and led with complete responsibility on herself as the leader.

I like that.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder then I guess.

This whole internecine affair involving herself in a family spat with the ex-brother-in-law, while in her capacity as Governor, makes her appear to me as both petty and incapable of seeing her own larger picture and acting wisely. Why then should we think that she would be a capable steward of the interests of the larger picture for 300M Americans?

Sorry but what I see is poor decision making skills, inexperience and less than impressive intellect that opposes gay marriage, opposes abortion, supports Creationism, advocates premarital sexual abstinence and has an unexpected pregnancy in the family.

If she were a wine, I doubt I would put her back in the cellar to age, so much as just flush her down the drain.

 

[Cyrus]

So you are inside his head, and you know that everything he did in the video was fake?

Yes, becaues we all stand around hugging for 3mins and kiss babies while the press takes our picture. RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTT......

Gimme a break, man. It REEKS of BS.

 

[Cyrus]

I'd rather not. Since I'm so bad with wording and conveying opinion, i'll just open up a can of worms and put my foot in my mouth. My decisions typically speak louder than my words.

It's not opinion that I want. I just want to know, specifically, what facts about her policy you like that allows you to overlook issues like abortion and teaching against evolution.

Those two right there should be a huge red flag to anyone. I still argue this woman is a pathetic choice and I would have much rather seen tom ridge or someone equivalent.


For castlegates to sit here and clap for the woman makes wonder....


I have two choices. In my left hand a guy who knows what's going on, was a former governor, ran the DHS. On other hand I have a no name woman, with no experience, and a real winner of a family. Yet you guys are not upset about McCains choice of her? AMAZING..

I'm not a republican, but I would want the person the republicans pick to be a top choice so that if they win, at least I know it was someone qualified.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder then I guess.

This whole internecine affair involving herself in a family spat with the ex-brother-in-law, while in her capacity as Governor, makes her appear to me as both petty and incapable of seeing her own larger picture and acting wisely. Why then should we think that she would be a capable steward of the interests of the larger picture for 300M Americans?

Sorry but what I see is poor decision making skills, inexperience and less than impressive intellect that opposes gay marriage, opposes abortion, supports Creationism, advocates premarital sexual abstinence and has an unexpected pregnancy in the family.

If she were a wine, I doubt I would put her back in the cellar to age, so much as just flush her down the drain.

Honestly from what I have read the 'troopergate' thing seems to be blown way out of proportion. She removed the man who ought have fired her brother in law for not doing so. The only reason why it is suspicious is because of their relationship to one another. Otherwise if the governor of a state found out about a state trooper that made death threats, abused his son, and drank alcohol in his patrol car but wasn't fired I don't think anyone would bat an eye at that governor doing something about it.

 

[LowlyPion]

McCain was a good candidate, but he has been wrapped around Bush's finger so long, I think he actually disregarded his old views as dirt. That's peer pressure for you.

I'd say he is at this point a captive of the Pentecostal Right. McCain the maverick has seemingly lost his way and sold his soul for a prayer to grasp the office.

 

[Nesiox]

Cyrus - He was tortured for five and a half years. You got to at least allow for a little stiffness. :-)
And you are inside his head, and you know there is evil within?

I don't mean to be brash, but just because he was a soldier, it doesn't automatically qualify him to be a president. If I were McCain I wouldn't have chose Palin as Cyrus stated. I would've chosen someone who was more qualified for the position and had enough experience than the opposition, because with that, my cabinet will be full proof. Palin was a choice based on strategical popularity stand-point. She is a woman, which could sway many women who are angry with Hilary not winning to move towards her, she is a Bible thumper which will get the Christian vote, member of the NRA which will get those gun lovers vote as well. It was a choice based on popularity and to take a swing at Obama.

 

[LowlyPion]

Honestly from what I have read the 'troopergate' thing seems to be blown way out of proportion. She removed the man who ought have fired her brother in law for not doing so. The only reason why it is suspicious is because of their relationship to one another. Otherwise if the governor of a state found out about a state trooper that made death threats, abused his son, and drank alcohol in his patrol car but wasn't fired I don't think anyone would bat an eye at that governor doing something about it.

Excuse me, but "made death threats"? Please. That is an unproven allegation forwarded by Sarah and her sister's father. The other complaints were also only established by a report from the father. There was no corroboration.

There are apparently some serious axes to grind in that family and the exercise of her office to intervene in what is clearly a personal matter and not a public one, doesn't show good judgment to me.

 

[castlegates]

Yes, becaues we all stand around hugging for 3mins and kiss babies while the press takes our picture. RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTT......

Gimme a break, man. It REEKS of BS.

Cyrus - It's called a photo op This is the usual. I mean really .. What are you trying to say? That McCain hates Palin, and he's acting all lovy dovy for the camera? Did it ever dawn on you that he picked Palin because he likes her on a personal level?

 

[Cyrus]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder then I guess.

This whole internecine affair involving herself in a family spat with the ex-brother-in-law, while in her capacity as Governor, makes her appear to me as both petty and incapable of seeing her own larger picture and acting wisely. Why then should we think that she would be a capable steward of the interests of the larger picture for 300M Americans?

Sorry but what I see is poor decision making skills, inexperience and less than impressive intellect that opposes gay marriage, opposes abortion, supports Creationism, advocates premarital sexual abstinence and has an unexpected pregnancy in the family.

If she were a wine, I doubt I would put her back in the cellar to age, so much as just flush her down the drain.

Three cheers! Good post, thank you.

 

[Cyrus]

Cyrus - It's called a photo op This is the usual. I mean really .. What are you trying to say? That McCain hates Palin, and he's acting all lovy dovy for the camera? Did it ever dawn on you that he picked Palin because he likes her on a personal level?

I'm saying he, and all politicans that do this crap are full of sh***. Even when I saw obama picking up babies and kissing them I had to roll my eyes and say put the damn baby down and just leave.

The time spent on this could instead be spent on actual reporting.

 

[LowlyPion]

She is a woman, which could sway many women who are angry with Hilary not winning to move towards her, ...

I doubt there will be a fraction of a tenth of a percent of Hilary simpaticos that will pull the lever for Palin given her positions on the issues. Her polarizing presence I would expect will trigger more incentive for Hilary voters to come out than there will be any defection because Hilary is not heading the ticket.

 

[Evo]

Also, her speech tonight bettered my opinion of her by a great deal. I do disagree with a few of her opinions, but in the real world, no one will ever have stances that everyone everywhere agrees on. There will always be differences.

Other than her strong pro-life stance, overall, I like her views.

That speech wasn't written by her, it was written by Bush's speech writer Matthew scully, so if her speech impressed you, vote for Matthew Scully.

The Obama campaign had less than a warm greeting, saying Palin's speech was "written by George Bush's speechwriter and sounds exactly like the same divisive, partisan attacks we've heard from George Bush for the last eight years." The speech was written by Matthew Scully, who met Palin for the first time last week.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cvn_palin

 

[Andre]

That begs the question which candidates or presidents do write their own speeches.

 

[Evo]

That begs the question which candidates or presidents do write their own speeches.

They all have speech writers, which some use more than others, which is why I don't listen to speeches that much. I listen more to off the cuff interviews and debates. They're still rehersed to some degree as far as having canned answers prepared, but a speech... PFFFT.

 

[LowlyPion]

Interesting article about Palin's speechwriter - Matt Sculley, a Bush speechwriter - who wrote a book against hunting - “Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy. - and now he's churning out copy for someone that brags about game meat in her freezer.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/washington/washington/entries/2008/09/03/palins_speechwr.html

 

[Art]

I suppose one success from the Republican's pov is Palin's nomination has blown Obama off the headlines. His acceptance speech which would have been the main story for a week fell by the wayside as all discussion centred on Palin. Voter recognition is important and so Obama needs to get his name back in lights again quickly before people begin to forget who he is.

There is a lot of truth in the maxim that 'there is no such thing as bad publicity' especially when you are the underdog, as the Republicans are in the forthcoming election.

 

[edward]

It would seem obvious from her speech tonight that she connects with the average everyday family (The cornerstone of any election),

She had the appearance of connecting with the average family, and that's about it. What we didn't see is the real story.

In reality she is a Pentecostal who believes the war in Iraq is Messianic. She insists on abstinence as the only method of birth control and yet has an unmarried pregnant daughter.

Her religion believes that we must start wars to enable the second coming of Christ.

A lot of Christians believe in the second coming, but the extreme believe that we must try to make the end times happen is preposterous. There is no scriptural basis for this belief.

In reality, if it had been allowed to come out in her speech, she isn't even connected to the majority of the religious right. The average family doesn't shoot animals from an airplane.

 

[seycyrus]

I'm not implying anything. She engaged in some reckless behavior that could have injured or even killed her unborn baby. That does not show good judgment on her part.

Ahh, but you contrasted it with the "belief in the sanctity of human life" stuff.

It didn't seem like you were just questioning her judgement.

 

[seycyrus]

And what again is your argument? That Palin on the basis of exactly what foreign negotiation experience, proximity notwithstanding, or for that matter even travel abroad, makes her qualified to conduct and assess any foreign policy of the United States? Just where would you allege she has acquired any deep thoughts on foreign issues, when she has managed to mire herself in a situation mixing her official duties with her family's personal issues?

My argument is that instead of acting like a bunch of witches cackling and cawing over the pot, the intellectuals on this forum might take the merits of the point the opposition is attempting to make and counter them.

This thread is running like a supermarket tabloid.

P.S. Did I mention that Palin's pants are like so...80s? My gawd!

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

P.S. Did I mention that Palin's pants are like so...80s? My gawd!

She's from Alaska, they are 20 years behind in fashion ;)

 

[LowlyPion]

Ahh, but you contrasted it with the "belief in the sanctity of human life" stuff.

It didn't seem like you were just questioning her judgement.

It is rather poor judgment to risk the health of an about to be born child - to be born in a matter of hours child - merely to give a speech.

If she is such a great and caring mother, why would she be placing her child at risk for such a dubious goal like that? Sadly it seems selfish and self absorbed, if not aggrandizing, at a moment that most mothers think to insure the health and safety of both themselves and their children.

Poster queen for family values or poster queen for unbridled ambition?

Is Palin going to end up being McCain's bridge to nowhere?

 

[seycyrus]

It is rather poor judgment to risk the health of an about to be born child - to be born in a matter of hours child - merely to give a speech.

If she is such a great and caring mother, why would she be placing her child at risk for such a dubious goal like that? ...

So, you are in fact, questioning her "mothering ability" or somesuch.

Just trying to get the record straight.

 

[Astronuc]

Here's a couple of worrisome items:

Analysis: GOP contradicts self on Palin family
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cvn_measure_of_a_nation_palin_family_politics

ST. PAUL, Minn. - People: Make up your minds.

For two days, the chorus from Republicans on TV news and in the halls of the convention has been resounding: Back off and let the Palin family be. "That's out of bounds," said Minnesota's Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty. "There's no need to be intrusive and pry into that."

Yet Wednesday found the following scenes unfolding:

_Sarah Palin's pregnant, unmarried 17-year-old daughter and probable future son-in-law stood in a nationally televised, politically packaged airport receiving line to meet and greet the Republican candidate for president.

_The extremely cute and bubbly Piper Palin, 7, made her debut on her mother's behalf, appearing in a video on John McCain's daughter's blog. . . . .

_Bristol Palin and her 18-year-old boyfriend, Levi Johnston, sat and held hands as they watched the Alaska governor deliver an acceptance speech that, in its opening minutes, focused heavily on her family and children. Later, the family — including Johnston — ascended the stage, basked in an extended ovation and waved.

Huh? The Republican message about the Palin offspring comes across as contradictory: Hey, media, leave those kids alone — so we can use them as we see fit.

If you doubt this scenario, consider this: On Wednesday morning, a teenage boy from Alaska stood in a receiving line on an airport tarmac, being glad-handed by the potential next president of the United States — because he got his girlfriend pregnant. TV cameras were lined up in advance. The mind boggles.

"Either the children are out of bounds, and you don't put them in the photo ops, or you don't complain when somebody wants to talk about them. You can't have it both ways," said John Matviko, a professor at West Liberty State College in West Virginia and editor of "The American President in Popular Culture."

"Right now, it looks like they're being used by the campaign more than the media are using them," he said.

. . . . .

There is more analysis in the article. Basically the McCain-Palin campaign is using the children for PR, but they will not allow the media to scrutinize what they are doing, and in fact they bash the press for doing so. This is an example of duplicitous behavior - and a continuation of Bush-Cheney.

and now Palin claims to know the will of God.

Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080903/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_iraq_war

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."

. . . .

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

. . . .

. . . . she said, she'd work to implement God's will from the governor's office, including creating jobs by building a pipeline to bring North Slope natural gas to North American markets.

We need a rational person as VP, one with a grip on reality, and Palin is not such a person.

 

[LowlyPion]

... might take the merits of the point the opposition is attempting to make and counter them.

Apparently being slow on the uptake I wonder could you help me out by providing a list of your alleged merits, that haven't been discussed here?

Foreign Policy experience? ... maybe with Siberian Eskimos and Santa Claus.
Exercising great judgment? ... involved herself as Governor in family dispute, bridge to nowhere flip-flop
Family values oriented? ... pregnant underage unmarried daughter
Intellectual prowess? ... Creationist, anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-polar bear, anti-global warming, pro-guns

If you have some other effective merits that you think she brings to the table, please don't keep them such a secret.

 

[Astronuc]

So, you are in fact, questioning her "mothering ability" or somesuch.

Just trying to get the record straight.

It's more a question of credibility and honesty.

And certainly one has to question why she would risk the health and safety of her child. Without the protection of the amniotic fluid, how much injury was done to her not yet born son?

 

[LowlyPion]

[From the article:]
"That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

Sadly the plan is Bush-Cheney-Rove's.

She sounds more like someone who should be sitting in the pews, than speaking from the pulpit.

 

[seycyrus]

We need a rational person as VP, one with a grip on reality, and Palin is not such a person.

A quick question. is it the fact that Palin claims to work for God or the fact that she talks about it, offend you?

Certainly Obama is a religous person. I am certain that he therefore, tries to do, and believes he does, God's will on a daily basis.

Unless you think that Obama is lying about his faith?