College academics vs high school

[FishmanGeertz]

From what I understand, when a person attends post-secondary education either at a university or community college, they are required to partake in a "core curriculum" on top of their major and minor. This curriculum consists of English, history, science, and math. Just like in high school.

How much more advanced is the "core curriculum" coursework in college, compared to high school? College level math touches upon every single branch of mathematics, including the much dreaded calculus. I have a learning disability in mathematical comprehension, therefore college may not be a good option for me.

I can barely fathom the bare basics of algebra, I just never understood the logic behind the more advanced maths. Let alone things like stochastic calculus and quadratic equation. Not to mention all of the extremely advanced mathematics and other academics that are on college entry exams.

Another subject which uses a lot of the logic of advanced mathematics is physics. Mathematics and physics are two entirely separate things. Math deals with numbers, while physics deal with the study of matter, it's motion throughout space and time, etc... Physics are probably much more difficult than mathematics, especially at extremely advanced levels.

Majors like engineering, physics, chemistry, business and business finance, and hard science are the only really math-intensive studies. Anything else just requires a lot of reading, critical thinking, and hard studying. However, I am sure you will be required to take a few college-level math classes regardless of your major/minor throughout your college career.

I graduated HS with a 3.6 GPA. I excelled in every other subject except math. But I went to a charter high school, which has simplified coursework compared to public high schools. For some reason I never had to take the SATs.

 

[Leveret]

The exact requirements of the core curriculum, or general education requirements, vary from university to university. Some places don't have any, while others offer a lot more freedom than the archetypal "math, science, history, and english" you see in high school. For instance, I fulfilled my university's equivalent of "humanities requirements" with a hodge-podge of linguistics, psychology, and anthropology courses. Not only are the requirements less set in stone than they were in high school, but you also have access to a plethora of subjects you've probably never even considered. If you go to a university's website and look through the list of departments, you may be astounded by the variety. Rather than math, science, history, and english per se, you get things like economics, psychology, gender studies, political science, business, and philosophy, to name just a few. Naturally, you're not expected to master all of these subjects. One big difference between high school and college is that, while high schools try to graduate more well-rounded people, college is when you really start to specialize in something. It's nothing like what you see in high school. If you major in something like political science or art history, you will probably never have to take a true math class (although, again, exact requirements vary from school to school).

That said, you do seem to have a somewhat skewed impression of college academics. Stochastic calculus, usually an upper-level undergraduate course, is many levels above the quadratic equation, which is starting to be taught in middle schools. Entry-level college exams, however, don't usually test material much higher than calculus 1/2/3, or the equivalent intro-level material for other subjects. They're usually not as advanced as you seem to think. As for this:

Another subject which uses a lot of the logic of advanced mathematics is physics. Mathematics and physics are two entirely separate things. Math deals with numbers, while physics deal with the study of matter, it's motion throughout space and time, etc... Physics are probably much more difficult than mathematics, especially at extremely advanced levels.

I'm afraid that is just dead wrong on all accounts. While there are distinct differences in the ways mathematicians and physicists view their fields, calling them entirely separate belies an ignorance of both. Yes, math deals with numbers, but it also deals with more abstract mathematical constructs. Some topics in advanced math can be explored using hardly any numbers at all--instead, you get more esoteric Greek symbols and the like. As for physics, your characterization is not completely wrong, but ask yourself: how do you suppose one goes about studying the motion of an object? Eventually it comes down to math. If you get into really theoretical physics, you'll find that the line between the two blurs even more, with physics spurring the development of more advanced math even as new mathematical discoveries provide physical insights. Finally, calling one intrinsically more difficult than the other is like calling oak trees better than maple trees. I'm a student of physics; physics is what I do, and physics is what I'm good at. However, if you put me in my roommate's math course on Hodge theory, I can almost guarantee you that I will fail out. Similarly, some mathematicians lack the ability to apply their trade to physical problems, and would make lackluster physicists. There is no universally "more difficult" one.

It's a shame you seem dead set against taking math or science courses. I really think you'd benefit from learning a bit more about what each is about; the algebra you know only barely nicks the surface.

 

[FishmanGeertz]

The exact requirements of the core curriculum, or general education requirements, vary from university to university. Some places don't have any, while others offer a lot more freedom than the archetypal "math, science, history, and english" you see in high school. For instance, I fulfilled my university's equivalent of "humanities requirements" with a hodge-podge of linguistics, psychology, and anthropology courses. Not only are the requirements less set in stone than they were in high school, but you also have access to a plethora of subjects you've probably never even considered. If you go to a university's website and look through the list of departments, you may be astounded by the variety. Rather than math, science, history, and english per se, you get things like economics, psychology, gender studies, political science, business, and philosophy, to name just a few. Naturally, you're not expected to master all of these subjects. One big difference between high school and college is that, while high schools try to graduate more well-rounded people, college is when you really start to specialize in something. It's nothing like what you see in high school. If you major in something like political science or art history, you will probably never have to take a true math class (although, again, exact requirements vary from school to school).

That said, you do seem to have a somewhat skewed impression of college academics. Stochastic calculus, usually an upper-level undergraduate course, is many levels above the quadratic equation, which is starting to be taught in middle schools. Entry-level college exams, however, don't usually test material much higher than calculus 1/2/3, or the equivalent intro-level material for other subjects. They're usually not as advanced as you seem to think. As for this:
I'm afraid that is just dead wrong on all accounts. While there are distinct differences in the ways mathematicians and physicists view their fields, calling them entirely separate belies an ignorance of both. Yes, math deals with numbers, but it also deals with more abstract mathematical constructs. Some topics in advanced math can be explored using hardly any numbers at all--instead, you get more esoteric Greek symbols and the like. As for physics, your characterization is not completely wrong, but ask yourself: how do you suppose one goes about studying the motion of an object? Eventually it comes down to math. If you get into really theoretical physics, you'll find that the line between the two blurs even more, with physics spurring the development of more advanced math even as new mathematical discoveries provide physical insights. Finally, calling one intrinsically more difficult than the other is like calling oak trees better than maple trees. I'm a student of physics; physics is what I do, and physics is what I'm good at. However, if you put me in my roommate's math course on Hodge theory, I can almost guarantee you that I will fail out. Similarly, some mathematicians lack the ability to apply their trade to physical problems, and would make lackluster physicists. There is no universally "more difficult" one.

It's a shame you seem dead set against taking math or science courses. I really think you'd benefit from learning a bit more about what each is about; the algebra you know only barely nicks the surface.

Calculus and other advanced math is on most college entry exams? If I barely know the very basics of algebra, how am I supposed to pass this test? If I major in political science and minor in humanities, neither of which deal with math or science, do I have to take a math course?

I don't know what these strange symbols and greek letters like "sigma" mean in these equations. I've tried taking online tutorials to teach me, but I just don't get it. I don't understand the logic behind it.

In today's economy, most college graduates are unable to find jobs in their field. So much so that they are asking for their money back from their university. Going to a 2-3 year technical or trade school will get you a job with much higher wages than someone with a bachelors degree in let's say political science or humanities. The only truly rewarding college degrees are in medicine, law, and engineering. These degrees will likely lead to a successful and lucrative career.

My brother is the district manager of several best buy stores in my city, and he makes almost 100K per year and he only has a high school diploma. Eventually he could end up working for corporate. In today's world, it's the number on the paycheck that matters, not a $40,000+ piece of paper. I'm not saying that college is a waste of time, it just isn't what it used to be.

 

[kramer733]

Calculus and other advanced math is on most college entry exams? If I barely know the very basics of algebra, how am I supposed to pass this test? If I major in political science and minor in humanities, neither of which deal with math or science, do I have to take a math course?

I don't know what these strange symbols and greek letters like "sigma" mean in these equations. I've tried taking online tutorials to teach me, but I just don't get it. I don't understand the logic behind it.

I'm not saying that college is a waste of time, it just isn't what it used to be.

You don't understand math because somewhere along the lines you fell off the wagon and tried to catch up to it. Go back to grade 6 mathematics and work your way up if you have to. Ask your math teachers for help and you will surely get back on the train. It took me 1.5 years to go from failing easy level grade 12 math class (we call this applied level in ontario) to learning calculus and linear algebra and getting a 90%. It took me pretty long but I'm glad I got it down.


Your problem isn't that you "don't get it." It's that you don't understand the fundamentals of mathematics that well. Would you know how to play any of Mozart's piece if you've never even gone to level 1 piano lessons? NO.. unless you're a HUGE LEGENDARY PRODIGY.


Also for me, education isn't about getting a job. It's about learning for the sake of learning. It's an institution which grants opportunities and I'm grateful for it. If you care about money and making crazy crazy money, you don't need to get a degree at all. Just work hard. But the $40k paper does make it easier to gain an entrance level job.

 

[jtbell]

Entry-level college exams, however, don't usually test material much higher than calculus 1/2/3

Which "entry-level college exams" even test for Calculus 1 material? (except of course for calculus courses themselves, or intro physics for prospective engineers/scientists, or some of the AP exams which of course are optional)

If I major in political science and minor in humanities, neither of which deal with math or science, do I have to take a math course?

It depends on which college or university you go to. Where I teach, we have a fairly traditional set of "general education" requirements. It includes at least one math course, which doesn't have to be calculus (and for most students here in fact is not calculus). You can take trigonometry, or a course called "finite math" which includes things like some probablilty and statistics, or one or two other options that escape me right now.

Some schools have more flexible general education requirements, or even none at all, just guidelines.

Also, if you have been diagnosed by a professional as having a learning disability in mathematics, you may be able to substitute something else for the normal math requirements. The possibilities probably depend on the school, and I don't have any experience with this myself.

 

[Leveret]

Which "entry-level college exams" even test for Calculus 1 material? (except of course for calculus courses themselves, or intro physics for prospective engineers/scientists, or some of the AP exams which of course are optional)

At my university, all undergrads planning to take anything in the calculus sequence (which usually ends up being most of them, it's a pretty heavily science school) had to take a placement exam that went over calc 1, 2, and 3 material. Admittedly not quite what you're talking about, since your score only mattered insofar as placement went.

 

[General_Sax]

What country is you Uni. in, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Leveret]

The USA.

 

[FishmanGeertz]

Which "entry-level college exams" even test for Calculus 1 material? (except of course for calculus courses themselves, or intro physics for prospective engineers/scientists, or some of the AP exams which of course are optional)
It depends on which college or university you go to. Where I teach, we have a fairly traditional set of "general education" requirements. It includes at least one math course, which doesn't have to be calculus (and for most students here in fact is not calculus). You can take trigonometry, or a course called "finite math" which includes things like some probablilty and statistics, or one or two other options that escape me right now.

Some schools have more flexible general education requirements, or even none at all, just guidelines.

Also, if you have been diagnosed by a professional as having a learning disability in mathematics, you may be able to substitute something else for the normal math requirements. The possibilities probably depend on the school, and I don't have any experience with this myself.

I think with extensive training and tutoring, I might be able to understand the more advanced maths. Just not very well...

I would like to study something which is not math-intensive. I can't afford a university (at the moment) so I'll probably be going to a technical school or community college.