Countability of Finite Product Sets: Foundational Issues?

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In summary, the conversation discusses a proof involving finite product sets and primes. The person giving the proof is told it is not enough and may be missing some foundational issues. It is explained that the map used in the proof is an injection, and thus the set is in bijection with an infinite subset of the natural numbers, making it countable. The person realizes their mistake and acknowledges that they were assuming strict inclusion instead of just inclusion.
  • #1
WWGD
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It seems obvious that ##A \subset B## implies ##|A|<|B|##. Does it need proof?
Hi,
I gave my friend a proof that the set of pairs ##\ mathbb N \times \mathbb N \times...\mathbb N ## (Finite product) is countable. I gave an injection :

##(a_1, a_2,...,a_n) \right arrow p_1_^{a_1} p_2^{a_2}...p_n^{a_n}##

Where the ##p_i## are distinct primes. My friend is telling me this is not enough and I can't see why,but I may be missing some foundational issues. I should each such product injects into the Naturals and any subset of the Naturals is countable. Am I missing anything here? Seems he's missing something or blowing it out of proportion.
 
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  • #2
Well, it's not true. ##\mathbb{N}\subset\mathbb{Z},## but ##|\mathbb{N}|=|\mathbb{Z}|.##

It is true that ##A\subset B## implies ##|A|\leq |B|##, but this is just a matter of definition: ##|A|\leq |B|## means that there is an injection ##A\hookrightarrow B##, and if ##A## is a subset of ##B##, then just use inclusion.

Anyway, since your map, let's call it ##f##, is an injection, ##\mathbb{N}\times\ldots\times\mathbb{N}## is in bijection with ##f(\mathbb{N}\times\ldots\times\mathbb{N})##, which is an infinite subset of ##\mathbb{N}##, and hence countable.
 
  • #3
Infrared said:
Well, it's not true. ##\mathbb{N}\subset\mathbb{Z},## but ##|\mathbb{N}|=|\mathbb{Z}|.##

It is true that ##A\subset B## implies ##|A|\leq |B|##, but this is just a matter of definition: ##|A|\leq |B|## means that there is an injection ##A\hookrightarrow B##, and if ##A## is a subset of ##B##, then just use inclusion.

Anyway, since your map, let's call it ##f##, is an injection, ##\mathbb{N}\times\ldots\times\mathbb{N}## is in bijection with ##f(\mathbb{N}\times\ldots\times\mathbb{N})##, which is an infinite subset of ##\mathbb{N}##, and hence countable.
Thanks. My bad, I was assuming finite subsets, so strict inclusion.
 

1. What is the concept of countability in finite product sets?

The concept of countability refers to the ability to assign a unique numerical value to each element in a set. In finite product sets, countability is determined by the number of elements in the set, which can be counted and assigned a numerical value.

2. How is countability related to the foundational issues of finite product sets?

Countability is a foundational issue in finite product sets because it determines the size and structure of the set. It also plays a role in determining the operations and properties of the set, such as closure under multiplication and addition.

3. What are the main challenges in determining the countability of finite product sets?

The main challenges in determining the countability of finite product sets include understanding the concepts of cardinality and infinity, as well as defining the operations and properties of the set in a consistent and rigorous manner.

4. Can finite product sets be uncountable?

No, finite product sets cannot be uncountable. By definition, finite sets have a limited number of elements, which can be counted and assigned a numerical value. Uncountable sets, on the other hand, have an infinite number of elements and cannot be assigned a unique numerical value.

5. How does the countability of finite product sets impact mathematical proofs and theories?

The countability of finite product sets is crucial in mathematical proofs and theories, as it helps determine the validity and consistency of these arguments. It also provides a framework for understanding and analyzing the properties and operations of these sets.

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