Differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials

In summary, the conversation discusses a mathematical identity involving a bounded measurable function defined on a bounded measurable domain. The identity is applied to prove the magnetostatic vector potential satisfies Ampère's law and the conversation discusses whether it can also be applied to prove the Lorenz gauge magnetodynamic retarded vector potential satisfies Maxwell's equations. The conclusion is that the identity can be adapted for this purpose under certain conditions.
  • #1
DavideGenoa
155
5
Hello, friends! I know, thanks to @Hawkeye18 who proved this identity to me, that, if ##\phi:V\to\mathbb{R}## is a bounded measurable function defined on the bounded measurable domain ##V\subset\mathbb{R}^3##, then, for any ##k\in\{1,2,3\}##,
$$\frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\int_V \frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{r})}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{r}}= \int_V \frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\left(\frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{r})}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|}\right) d\mu_{\boldsymbol{r}}.$$
An important application of this result is the proof that the magnetostatic vector potential ##\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int_\mathbb{R}^3 \frac{\boldsymbol{J}(\boldsymbol{r})}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{r}}## satisfies Ampère's law.
Since I am, fuitlessly until now, trying to prove to myself that the Lorenz gauge magnetodynamic retarded vector potential satisfies Maxwell's equations, I am wondering whether, given a constant ##c##, it is also true that $$\frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\int_V \frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{r},t-c^{-1}\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{r}}= \int_V \frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\left(\frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{r},t-c^{-1}\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|}\right) d\mu_{\boldsymbol{r}}$$for, say ##\phi\in C^2(\mathbb{R}^4)## and ##\phi(-,t)## compactly supported as a function of the first vector variable.
If it is true, how could we prove it?
I ##\infty##-ly thank any answerer!
 
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  • #2
DavideGenoa said:
Since I am, fuitlessly until now, trying to prove to myself that the Lorenz gauge magnetodynamic retarded vector potential satisfies Maxwell's equations, I am wondering whether, given a constant ##c##, it is also true that $$\frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\int_V \frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{r},t-c^{-1}\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{r}}= \int_V \frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\left(\frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{r},t-c^{-1}\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{r}\|}\right) d\mu_{\boldsymbol{r}}$$for, say ##\phi\in C^2(\mathbb{R}^4)## and ##\phi(-,t)## compactly supported as a function of the first vector variable.
If it is true, how could we prove it?
I ##\infty##-ly thank any answerer!

I assume that you mean [itex]\| \mathbf{r} - \mathbf{r'} \|[/itex], and that you mean [itex]\frac{\partial}{\partial r'_k}[/itex]?

I have not worked out the extent to which [itex]\phi[/itex] being compactly supported affects whether you can pull the partial derivative inside the integral. However, your modified problem is obtained from the original by replacing [itex]\phi(\mathbf{r})[/itex] by [itex]\tilde{\phi}(\mathbf{r}) \equiv \phi(\mathbf{r}, t - \frac{1}{c} \| \mathbf{r} - \mathbf{r'} \|)[/itex]. But knowing that [itex]\phi(\mathbf{r}, t)[/itex] is compactly supported in the first argument doesn't necessarily imply that [itex]\tilde{\phi}[/itex] is compactly supported.

Here's a analogous problem:

Let [itex]f(x,y)[/itex] be a function that is zero unless [itex]|x| < 2|y|[/itex]. So that's compactly supported in the first argument. But if we define [itex]\tilde{f}(x,y) = f(x, y-x)[/itex], then [itex]\tilde{f}[/itex] is not compactly supported in the first argument.
 
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  • #3
Thank you very much! Yes, @stevendaryl, I meant:

Hello, friends! I know, thanks to @Hawkeye18 who proved this identity to me, that, if ##\phi:V\to\mathbb{R}## is a bounded measurable function defined on the bounded measurable domain ##V\subset\mathbb{R}^3##, then, for any ##k\in\{1,2,3\}##,
$$\frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\int_V \frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{l})}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{l}}= \int_V \frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\left(\frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{l})}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|}\right) d\mu_{\boldsymbol{l}}.$$
An important application of this result is the proof that the magnetostatic vector potential ##\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int_\mathbb{R}^3 \frac{\boldsymbol{J}(\boldsymbol{l})}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{l}}## satisfies Ampère's law.
Since I am, fuitlessly until now, trying to prove to myself that the Lorenz gauge magnetodynamic retarded vector potential satisfies Maxwell's equations, I am wondering whether, given a constant ##c##, it is also true that $$\frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\int_V \frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{l},t-c^{-1}\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{l}}= \int_V \frac{\partial}{\partial r_k}\left(\frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{l},t-c^{-1}\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|}\right) d\mu_{\boldsymbol{l}}$$for, say ##\phi\in C^2(\mathbb{R}^4)## and ##\phi(-,t)## compactly supported as a function of the first vector variable.
If it is true, how could we prove it?
I ##\infty##-ly thank any answerer!
 
  • #4
Dear @stevendaryl , I have tried to adapt the proof by Hawkeye18 to this problem, and, as far as I understand, it can used in an almost identical way, with ##\frac{\partial }{\partial r_k}\left(\frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{l},t-c^1\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|} \right)## instead of ##\frac{\partial }{\partial r_k}\left(\frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{l})}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|} \right)##, provided for example that ##\phi\in C^2(\mathbb{R}^4)## and that the two functions $$\boldsymbol{l}\mapsto \phi(\boldsymbol{l},t-c^1\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|)$$$$\boldsymbol{l}\mapsto \dot\phi(\boldsymbol{l},t-c^1\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|)$$ are compactly supported. This last condition is met if ##\phi\in C_2^2(\mathbb{R}^4)##.
By following Hawkeye18's reasoning we also see that the derivatives of ##V:=\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon}\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \frac{\phi(\boldsymbol{l},t-c^1\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|)}{\|\boldsymbol{r}-\boldsymbol{l}\|} d\mu_{\boldsymbol{l}} ## are continuous and also that ##V\in C^1(\mathbb{R}^3)##.
Am I right? I ##\infty##-ly thank you!
 
  • #5
@stevendaryl and anyone else reading: Are my conclusions in the preceding post correct?
 

1. What is differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials?

Differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials is a mathematical technique used to simplify the calculation of time-dependent integrals. It involves taking the derivative of the integrand with respect to a variable other than the integration variable and then integrating the result. This technique is commonly used in physics and engineering, particularly in the study of electromagnetic fields.

2. Why is differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials necessary?

This technique is necessary because it allows us to solve complex integrals that would otherwise be difficult or impossible to solve. It also simplifies the calculation of time-dependent integrals, making them more manageable and easier to work with.

3. How does differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials work?

The technique involves applying the Leibniz integral rule, which states that the derivative of an integral with respect to a variable is equal to the integral of the derivative of the integrand with respect to that variable. This allows us to move the differentiation operation outside of the integral, making it easier to solve.

4. What are some applications of differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials?

Differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials is commonly used in the study of electromagnetic fields, particularly in the calculation of electromagnetic potentials and fields. It is also used in other fields such as fluid dynamics and quantum mechanics.

5. Are there any limitations to differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials?

While differentiation under the integral in retarded potentials is a useful technique, it does have some limitations. It may not always be possible to apply this technique, particularly in cases where the integrand is not well-behaved or when the integration limits are not fixed. In these cases, other methods may need to be used to solve the integral.

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