Do animals have life goals or wishes?

[ISamson]

Hello.
I know that many humans have lifelong goals, like becoming an engineer, winning the Nobel Prize or something. But do animals have the same? I understand that the goal of all living things is to give a successful and prospering offspring, but do animals and living things other than us have something deeper than just reproducing.
I think this could be an interesting subject to discuss.
Thank you.

 

[Vanadium 50]

But do animals have the same?

Why don't you ask them?

 

[jim mcnamara]

...thread moved to General Discussion

 

[fresh_42]

In the end, we cannot tell, due to communication barriers and difficulties to identify those thoughts by merely brain currents. I cannot see any reason, why it shouldn't be possible, at least in principle. Several animals are well capable of self-awareness. However, most creatures have to worry about their daily food and are completely busy with that. Even pets cannot know for sure, whether they will be fed, so nutrition probably fully occupies their time not sleeping or reproducing.

I think there is a lot of luxury in the words "life goals", which many - even humans - simply don't have. Also animals usually don't plan very much into the future, if at all, only a few have a comprehension of "if - then", which is not a trained reflex. Most planning probably comes from raising offspring, so the time it needs to grow up might play a major role, and I think we're leading this competition by far and thus simply need to think about the future to some extend.

I do not think this is a subject which should be discussed, unless there is a scientific study about it, because otherwise it's pure speculation, including my opinion above.

 

[CWatters]

Animals have been observed to play so I don't think we can say they are fully occupied with feeding/nutrition.

Some herd animals like elephants appear to act in the interests of the herd rather than themselves but perhaps that count as procreation.

 

[jedishrfu]

Your question really boils down to are we the first to worry about life goals? If you look back in history, what life goals did our ancestors have? and when did they have them?

This requires us to define what life goals are. Once our needs of food, safety and health are met in the near term then we can begin to look forward to other things.

Next, have other animals developed to this point? We can't say although play could well be the life goal they aspire to. In the case, of cats and dogs one could argue that they have their needs of food, safety and health met and we sometimes feel that they are so human ie at the age of a three year old.

But we have to be careful to not think that they have the same emotions as we do and that their actions correspond to emotions that we feel. Herding dogs often show a protective nature to kids but is that love or part of their herding nature as part of the pack.

 

[stevendaryl]

Hello.
I know that many humans have lifelong goals, like becoming an engineer, winning the Nobel Prize or something. But do animals have the same? I understand that the goal of all living things is to give a successful and prospering offspring, but do animals and living things other than us have something deeper than just reproducing.
I think this could be an interesting subject to discuss.
Thank you.

My feeling is that animals live in the moment much more than humans do, or maybe exclusively. They do things to prepare for the future, such as squirrels gathering nuts to prepare for the winter, but I wouldn't say that it is because they are thinking about the future. Instead, they have instincts so that they want to have nuts gathered up.

I would guess it would be difficult to tease apart the distinction between:

1. The animal does such-and-such because of instincts. The instincts evolved so that the animal prepares for the future.
2. The animal does such-and-such because IT is planning for the future.

For humans, some activities are clearly in the first category. We don't eat because we're reasoning that we're going to need those calories for future activities. We eat because we feel hunger now. We don't have sex because we desire to perpetuate our genes. We have sex because we want to now. But humans do sometimes do things because we're thinking about the future. For example, saving money or buying insurance. I'm not sure that animals ever do.

 

[stevendaryl]

My feeling is that animals live in the moment much more than humans do, or maybe exclusively. They do things to prepare for the future, such as squirrels gathering nuts to prepare for the winter, but I wouldn't say that it is because they are thinking about the future. Instead, they have instincts so that they want to have nuts gathered up.

I would guess it would be difficult to tease apart the distinction between:

1. The animal does such-and-such because of instincts. The instincts evolved so that the animal prepares for the future.
2. The animal does such-and-such because IT is planning for the future.

For humans, some activities are clearly in the first category. We don't eat because we're reasoning that we're going to need those calories for future activities. We eat because we feel hunger now. We don't have sex because we desire to perpetuate our genes. We have sex because we want to now. But humans do sometimes do things because we're thinking about the future. For example, saving money or buying insurance. I'm not sure that animals ever do.

I take that back. Smarter animals such as ravens and chimpanzees definitely show in some experiments that they are thinking about the future---that they must do X now in order to allow them to do Y in the future. But I think that the time frame for such planning is much shorter than for humans. They might plan a few minutes ahead, but I'm not sure that they ever plan one year ahead.

 

[BillTre]

I would guess it would be difficult to tease apart the distinction between:

1. The animal does such-and-such because of instincts. The instincts evolved so that the animal prepares for the future.
2. The animal does such-and-such because IT is planning for the future.

This, along with how would you even define a "life goal" (you only gave a couple of examples, not a definition) are the heart of the problem your question presents.
To me, life goals means something more than just a short term view of what to do next.

Your examples imply goals which will differ between individuals and are not tied to individual advantage and obvious biological adaptation.
Biological adaptation can be widely interpreted such as:
While a male gorilla or chimp that for some reason (brain tumor, unusually aggressive personality, or ??) goes around bullying other individuals in its groups could be interpreted as a life goal of dominating the groups, however, it alternatively be interpreted as a strategy to maximize its reproductive potential.

Among animal behavior researchers, play is often considered instinctive practice behavior for the development of learned adult behaviors (such as movement and hunting) that develop specific abilities based upon the potential of what neural plasticity can produce.

Just to add another layer of complexity to the issue of goals of behavior, consider things that the individuals of super-organismic animals like bees and ants.
Many have only a few reproductive individuals, but large numbers of non-reproductives. Some species have different castes that are specialized for different purposes (similar to different job-like behaviors like "becoming an engineer, winning the Nobel Prize". Are these their differing life goals?
Probably not, since their behavior is considered to be programed by their earlier development which is genetically programmed and hormonally directed during their development.

 

[ISamson]

life goal

I like to think of it in terms of achieving something not for the need to survive (like gathering food with animals to live one more day and escape from predators), but, on the other hand in terms of a want not a need. Like I don't have to win the Nobel Prize in order to get money to buy a loaf of bread, but I know that it would be great to win one for my psychological side of view and my want not need.
This is how I would define 'life goal' in this situation. Good question, thanks.

 

[lekh2003]

I think one can only have life goals once they know that they can get food, shelter and water everyday without worry (this is the instinct to survive). Humans, or most humans, know that they are most likely not going to die in the immediate future due to lack of food, water, shelter or protection. We have goals beyond these things, since we already know we are probably not going to die from the lack of them.

Most animals on the other hand do not have the brain capacity to realize that there really is something besides food, water and shelter, especially wild animals who are constantly in danger. Domestic animals can drift away from these goals, but they are still only able to think in the short term.

Say a greyhound dog, the greyhound wouldn't exactly train to become faster so that one day it could become the fastest and hold a world record, it would go faster to get a treat or satisfy its owner in the short term.

EDIT: Or of course I could be horribly wrong and the animals just want us to think they don't have goals so they can one day rule the world. I'm not going to rule it out .

 

[BillTre]

I think one can only have life goals once they know that they can get food, shelter and water everyday without worry (this is the instinct to survive).

I think my dog's life goal is to lie around and sleep.
Its not a higher kind of goal but she's just a dog.

 

[bazza]

Hello.
I know that many humans have lifelong goals, like becoming an engineer, winning the Nobel Prize or something. But do animals have the same? I understand that the goal of all living things is to give a successful and prospering offspring, but do animals and living things other than us have something deeper than just reproducing.
I think this could be an interesting subject to discuss.
Thank you.

All life has goals, because purpose is the food on which life feeds; without purpose there would be no intelligent life.
Dr Donald Hoffman who works at the University of California researched life and came to the conclusion that all life cannot see accurately. Not seeing accurately gives purpose; purpose feeds intelligence.
The higher up the evolutionary scale the more purpose is needed. This leaves us with a very complex situation; if all life cannot see accurately; why is it that all life has not reached the same level of intelligence? We will find the answer eventually, by trying to see accurately.

 

[Evo]

All life has goals, because purpose is the food on which life feeds; without purpose there would be no intelligent life.
Dr Donald Hoffman who works at the University of California researched life and came to the conclusion that all life cannot see accurately. Not seeing accurately gives purpose; purpose feeds intelligence.
The higher up the evolutionary scale the more purpose is needed. This leaves us with a very complex situation; if all life cannot see accurately; why is it that all life has not reached the same level of intelligence? We will find the answer eventually, by trying to see accurately.

This makes no sense, what does "seeing accurately" even mean?

Please do not answer that, we do not allow philosophy here. The OP's question can't be answered, this thread is closed as it has been answered as best as it possibly can.