Does the N Gibbs factor SAVE or DESTROY extensivity?

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In summary, The argument for a factor of 1/N! making entropy extensive is well-known, as it makes the entropy equal for two systems with indistinguishable particles. However, a slight variation where the two systems can exchange energy but not particles suggests that the Gibbs factor may not be necessary for extensivity.
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So we all know the argument that shows that a factor [itex]\frac{1}{N!}[/itex] makes entropy extensive: it makes the entropy the same for system A and system B where system A is a box of indistinguishable/indistinguished particles and where B is system A is split into two isolated parts.

But regard this slight variation, where system A is the same as above, and where system B is again a splitting of system A, but now we let the two parts interchange energy: i.e. instead of isolated, the two parts are simply closed (= interchanging energy but not particles).

Wouldn't we expect the relation [itex]\Omega(E) = \int \mathrm d E_A \Omega_A(E_A) \Omega_B(E-E_A)[/itex] to hold for the latter A and B (a form of extensivity)? However, this formula is only true if we do not include the Gibbs factor!
 
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So this seems to suggest that the Gibbs factor is not in fact necessary for extensivity. Is this correct?
 

Related to Does the N Gibbs factor SAVE or DESTROY extensivity?

What is the N Gibbs factor and how does it affect extensivity?

The N Gibbs factor is a mathematical quantity used in thermodynamics to calculate the number of ways a system can be arranged into different energy levels. It can affect extensivity, which is the property of a system that allows its size or quantity to be proportional to its properties, by either saving or destroying it.

How does the N Gibbs factor save extensivity?

When the N Gibbs factor is greater than 1, it indicates that the system has more accessible energy levels than the number of particles in the system. This means that the system is not limited by the number of particles and can therefore exhibit extensivity.

How does the N Gibbs factor destroy extensivity?

If the N Gibbs factor is less than 1, it means that the number of available energy levels is less than the number of particles in the system. This leads to a breakdown in extensivity, as the system is constrained by the number of particles and cannot scale proportionally to its properties.

What factors influence the N Gibbs factor?

The N Gibbs factor is influenced by temperature, volume, and the number of particles in the system. These factors affect the energy levels available to the system and ultimately determine whether the N Gibbs factor will save or destroy extensivity.

Why is extensivity important in thermodynamics?

Extensivity is important because it allows us to describe the behavior of a system regardless of its size. It is a fundamental property of thermodynamic systems and plays a crucial role in understanding and predicting the behavior of complex systems.

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