Doomsday Preppers: Are They Mentally Ill?

[bill1064]

Reading this thread makes me wonder, what happens when you run out of food and the world is still in chaos? Why not just learn to survive in a wilderness situation than horde food?

Because there's not enough wilderness to go around. The only thing that allows the planet to support the billions of people on it are commercial factory farming practices.

I am working towards having a couple of years of food stores. And in about a month I am moving to a new job where I can buy a little farm. Not because of doomsday, but because I grew up in that lifestyle and because I like it. But if doomsday ever happens I expect I will be better off there.

 

[bill1064]

Bill, thank you, I was hoping we could get a dialogue going to understand your side and maybe we could answer questions on the scientific side.

My daughter is terrified of storms and tornadoes, we live in tornado alley. I no longer have a basement, so she's prepared my inner bathroom to do as much as possible to keep me alive. I have fully cooked non perishable foods in bags that can be easily torn open, water, candles, waterproof flashlight, kitchen matches, a lighter, a knife, an ax, kleenex, one of those annoying air horns so I can call for help if I am too weak to talk, a hammer, a crowbar, my meds, a first aid kit.

OH MY GOD! Your one of those nut case Preppers. :)

You do need to add a camp stove to heat the water for your freeze dried meals.

 

[Evo]

OH MY GOD! Your one of those nut case Preppers. :)

You do need to add a camp stove to heat the water for your freeze dried meals.

No, these are fully cooked and hydrated and need no water or anything, you can warm them, but they're fine eaten cold. Obviously if I am trapped next to a toilet buried under debris, I'm not going to be able to set up a stove or do food prep. My daughter thought of everything.

At my old house I had a narrow hallway of concrete that was my go to place. There I had a camp stove, sterno, canned foods etc... since i moved to an apartment, I've had to rethink what i can do trapped in a very tight space. If I am lucky enough to be trapped and not blown out.

I am trying to get people together to demand that apartment complexes here in tornado alley have a tornado shelter. Right now, there is no place to go if a tornado is coming.

 

[bill1064]

The majority rules. And if the majority is insane, then I move.

LOL! If I lived by that rule I'd have to find a new planet to live on.

 

[ideasrule]

I recently got into a very heated conversation on the topic of Prepping, with my best friend. He is more interested in buying new computer hardware than building up even a minimal emergency stockpile for his family. I'm in IT and love my new video cards and CPU's but my wife and toddler mean much more to me than any of that.

I don't know whether you're talking about disasters in general or doomsday in particular, so I'm going to respond generically. You can stockpile your years' worth of food, and I can buy video cards and CPU's. I'm willing to take the risk. I simply don't think the risk of a disaster that strikes without any warning, that leaves all food supplies inaccessible, and that prevents me from leaving the city is high enough to warrant stockpiling months of food. Considering that I have a 100% chance of dying, preparing for an event that has a 1 in 1000 chance of happening in my lifetime doesn't sound appealing.

Also, nobody has yet addressed the point I made earlier. You're much more likely to die of heart disease or a car crash than due to whatever you're stockpiling for. Are you donating your money towards heart disease research? Are you customizing your car to make it safer? If not, why not?

If my food, water and other emergency essentials don't ever get used, what harm was there in having it? NONE.

The money you wasted, the time you spent, the 500 square meters you've taken up...Heck, with events as unlikely as the apocalypse, even the risk of the stockpiled food falling and hurting you is non-negligible. By the way, what you do recommend to people living in studio apartments, or even worse, college dorms?

 

[turbo]

My wife and I are probably more prepared than most "preppers", but not because we fear the worst. My parents lived through the Great Depression and their families did OK with little or no money because they knew how to grow, gather, and store food. I picked up those tendencies. Our garden is pretty large for two people, and I preserve, can, or freeze as much food as I can put away. Look in our pantry and there are jar after jar of canned green beans, cucumber pickles, tomato/pepper salsa, etc. Dry foods like beans, rice, pasta, bulgar wheat, etc, are much cheaper in bulk at the health food store than at the supermarket, so we've got lots of those, too, as well as lots of canned foods that came on sale for some reason. The center section of my big grill can be fired with wood, as well as the side-smoker, so we don't need propane or charcoal to cook or smoke our food. I use a lot of salt for making pickles, etc, so I have boxes of that (non-iodized/Kosher salt). I don't have as much salt on-hand as my great aunt always did, but then again, I'm not in the habit of salting down all the fat from 2-3 hogs a year like she did, or making a cask of sauerkraut every year.

 

[DaveC426913]

And Dave, isn't laughing at people who have beliefs different from your a bit low on the bell curve too?

I'm not laughing at anyone; it was not meant as a slight at all.

Sorry, I see your misinterpretation. I was vague.

The bell curve I'm talking about applies to how people react to a given event (of any type). The bulk will act with moderation, a small few will react strongly in favour of the situaiton and a small few will react strongly opposed to a situation. Doomsday preppers are the 1% that are react strongly in favour of the current popularity of the doomsday scenario.

 

[tstrong]

There were 3 doomsday scenarios that the families were preparing for in the NatGeo program, I've only seen 2 addressed here so far.

1. Coronal mass ejection, I personally rate this threat as low probability.

2. Nuclear/EMP event, I also rate this low probability, but I could be wrong, we (the USA) have many malevolent enemies in the world.

3. Hyperinflation, this I consider high probability/near certainty.(timeline unknown)
The government only has 3 ways to raise its money:
1- Tax its people, there is a practical limit to this.
2- Borrow, there are fewer buyers for our T-bills, soon there will be none.
3- Print money, Governments have been doing this for centuries when they cannot pay their bills, our government has printed over 2 TRILLION dollars over just the last 2 years. The risk of hyperinflation is nontrivial.

By the way its not child abuse to teach your family to don Hazmat suits when you live downwind of a nuclear power plant, which is what the first family was doing.

 

[Evo]

By the way its not child abuse to teach your family to don Hazmat suits when you live downwind of a nuclear power plant, which is what the first family was doing.

That family was the coronal mass people.

 

[Ftheog]

That family was the coronal mass people.

true, but they were concerned about it knocking out the cooling to the nuke plant and causing a meltdown, thus the need for the hazmat suits

 

[Evo]

true, but they were concerned about it knocking out the cooling to the nuke plant and causing a meltdown, thus the need for the hazmat suits

So how do you feel about telling children they may have only a year to live, based on an unrealistic fear?

BTW, the CME just happened, earlier than expected. It happened the first week of June.

http://www.space.com/11893-huge-sun-eruption-spectacular-solar-flare.html

Then there's this report that the sun's activity has stopped and we're headed into another maunder minimum.

Scientists predict rare 'hibernation' of sunspots

According to three studies released in the United States on Tuesday, experts believe the familiar sunspot cycle may be shutting down and heading toward a pattern of inactivity unseen since the 17th century.

The signs include a missing jet stream, fading spots, and slower activity near the poles, said experts from the National Solar Observatory and Air Force Research Laboratory.

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110614/ts_afp/usspacesun

Then a few days later NASA comes out saying that thanks to a new technology, they've looked underneath the exterior of the sun and found some activity.

I'll look that up. Edit: hmmm, the NASA comment was from 2009 responding to the 2008-2009 solar decrease.

 

[Ftheog]

I don't remember them telling the kids they only had a year to live, I remember the parents making a game out of it "who's the little elephant?" son being able to fish in his backyard, taking responsibility for the chickens ect

 

[swishAL]

Evo, Turbo, DaveC4, and others... as a prepper I really appreciate your opinions on this subject. For the most part I do agree. Along the lines of what Dave was saying you are more likely to be brutally attacked and killed by a 2 week old kitten than some of the scenarios that play out in the "prepping world". What you guys have to understand is that is a small segment of the prepping community. We don't all believe the sky is falling tomorrow, or that bad guys are on every corner just waiting to attack us.

Evo, I completely understand your concern for the children and appreciate that. Just keep in mind it is a TV show and I seriously doubt that family is throwing on their hazmat suits everyday. If they are close to a Nuke Plant think of it as a fire drill if you will. Or in your case a tornado drill. Nothing wrong with having a plan in place. I get the fact that chances of a fire or a tornado are greater than the nuke plant having issues, but if it helps them sleep better at night then go for it. Oh, and having silhouettes as targets is very common when you go to the gun rang and are wanting to learn self defense. I don't remember hearing the part about shooting neighbors in the show. I will have to re-watch that part. As for defending yourself against intruders, I would recommend anyone learn how to do that.

Honestly I am trying to be more like turbo, a little more self sufficient. I do own a few guns as I'm sure he does. Out here in the sticks we learn to hunt and fish at a early age. It's just part of the culture. I have about a half acre garden this year with another acre of corn. It is just what I like to do.

Sorry to have "invaded" your forum. I really do appreciate all your opinions and love to look at each side of the coin.

 

[Willowz]

Into the bunkers.

 

[Evo]

Evo, Turbo, DaveC4, and others... as a prepper I really appreciate your opinions on this subject. For the most part I do agree. Along the lines of what Dave was saying you are more likely to be brutally attacked and killed by a 2 week old kitten than some of the scenarios that play out in the "prepping world". What you guys have to understand is that is a small segment of the prepping community. We don't all believe the sky is falling tomorrow, or that bad guys are on every corner just waiting to attack us.

Evo, I completely understand your concern for the children and appreciate that. Just keep in mind it is a TV show and I seriously doubt that family is throwing on their hazmat suits everyday. If they are close to a Nuke Plant think of it as a fire drill if you will. Or in your case a tornado drill. Nothing wrong with having a plan in place. I get the fact that chances of a fire or a tornado are greater than the nuke plant having issues, but if it helps them sleep better at night then go for it. Oh, and having silhouettes as targets is very common when you go to the gun rang and are wanting to learn self defense. I don't remember hearing the part about shooting neighbors in the show. I will have to re-watch that part. As for defending yourself against intruders, I would recommend anyone learn how to do that.

Honestly I am trying to be more like turbo, a little more self sufficient. I do own a few guns as I'm sure he does. Out here in the sticks we learn to hunt and fish at a early age. It's just part of the culture. I have about a half acre garden this year with another acre of corn. It is just what I like to do.

Sorry to have "invaded" your forum. I really do appreciate all your opinions and love to look at each side of the coin.

Hi swish, welcome to our forum. A large part of my concern was how Nat Geo put the Doomsday spin on it. Of course, the name was "Doomsday preppers". You can see from the web page they put the show on, it was with all of the crackpot end of the world shows. Like I said, there is no telling how many people they scared, and what that could mean. There was the toast that was made to the effect of "to our last year on earth", and the other mom that said they live expecting armageddon.

I've always gardened myself and my wish has always been to live on a farm. I have relatives with farms. You will find that we have many self sufficient members here. One of them is raising my chicken for me, because I can't have chickens here.

And you could be right, Nat Geo, although they swear they only showed what these people did everyday, I'm sure there was creative editing making them look like lunatics. I'm furious that Nat Geo would air something like this.

Is also nice to hear from people that are saying that the doomsday cults aren't part of real "preppers", that they consider themselves more self sufficient like turbo and it's not done out of misguided fear.

 

[micromass]

Evo, Turbo, DaveC4, and others... as a prepper I really appreciate your opinions on this subject. For the most part I do agree. Along the lines of what Dave was saying you are more likely to be brutally attacked and killed by a 2 week old kitten than some of the scenarios that play out in the "prepping world". What you guys have to understand is that is a small segment of the prepping community. We don't all believe the sky is falling tomorrow, or that bad guys are on every corner just waiting to attack us.

Evo, I completely understand your concern for the children and appreciate that. Just keep in mind it is a TV show and I seriously doubt that family is throwing on their hazmat suits everyday. If they are close to a Nuke Plant think of it as a fire drill if you will. Or in your case a tornado drill. Nothing wrong with having a plan in place. I get the fact that chances of a fire or a tornado are greater than the nuke plant having issues, but if it helps them sleep better at night then go for it. Oh, and having silhouettes as targets is very common when you go to the gun rang and are wanting to learn self defense. I don't remember hearing the part about shooting neighbors in the show. I will have to re-watch that part. As for defending yourself against intruders, I would recommend anyone learn how to do that.

Honestly I am trying to be more like turbo, a little more self sufficient. I do own a few guns as I'm sure he does. Out here in the sticks we learn to hunt and fish at a early age. It's just part of the culture. I have about a half acre garden this year with another acre of corn. It is just what I like to do.

Sorry to have "invaded" your forum. I really do appreciate all your opinions and love to look at each side of the coin.

I must say that I'm actually quite pleased by some of the responds that preppers gave here. The doomsday preppers like shown on national geographic are still people I can't understand. But most preppers that responded here gave me the impression to be quite rational and sane people. It wasn't really something I expected, but I'm pleased that I was proven wrong. Looking at both sides of the coin is always best!

 

[Ftheog]

So how do you feel about telling children they may have only a year to live, based on an unrealistic fear?

BTW, the CME just happened, earlier than expected. It happened the first week of June.

http://www.space.com/11893-huge-sun-eruption-spectacular-solar-flare.html

QUOTE]

so the article confirms cme, it just didn't have a direct on the earth. The sun is going through a active cycle right now, from the article "The sun is currently going through an active period in it is 11-year solar weather cycle. " which scientist are saying will culminate in 2012, which is probably a reason for those peoples concerns, not the mayans

 

[DaveC426913]

What you guys have to understand is that is a small segment of the prepping community. We don't all believe the sky is falling tomorrow, or that bad guys are on every corner just waiting to attack us.

Yep. I think we're seeing that. Every group has its fringe, and it is folly to judge a whole group by them, yet that is what often happens.

I think you guys did the right thing coming over here and joining. After reading through some of the threads there, I half expected we'd be inundated with mockery and threats. But we've had a chance to hear from the more rational side.

And it sounds like many of us here are taking the precautions we think are best too.

 

[Ftheog]

I must say that I'm actually quite pleased by some of the responds that preppers gave here. The doomsday preppers like shown on national geographic are still people I can't understand. But most preppers that responded here gave me the impression to be quite rational and sane people. It wasn't really something I expected, but I'm pleased that I was proven wrong. Looking at both sides of the coin is always best!

I think the producers painted a very negative picture of the families. Family one and two have blogs and are very sane. Family 3 have a very informative youtube channel. Family 2 even posted on the survivalistboards that the nighttime delivery was bogus, and the producers added it for drama.

 

[Evo]

I think the producers painted a very negative picture of the families. Family one and two have blogs and are very sane. Family 3 have a very informative youtube channel. Family 2 even posted on the survivalistboards that the nighttime delivery was bogus, and the producers added it for drama.

Which family was doing the human target practice? And I have to say that the woman that said "We have no other purpose in life than to prepare for armageddon.", falls into the doomsday group, well, actually all 4 families believed in a doomsday scenario, and their actions were the result of this fear.

I can believe that most "preppers" do not wish to be associated with these people. I believe one prepper that posted here said that these types represent maybe 1 percent of preppers.

People that just wish to be more self sufficient, more power to them, groups that are doomsday believers, those people need help. I feel sorry for them. This thread is about that fringe.

 

[DaveC426913]

...the woman that said "We have no other purpose in life than to prepare for armageddon.", falls into the doomsday group...

I am highly suspicious of anything anyone says through the eye of a camera. Nay, more than suspicious - if it sounds irrational, I assume it is
a] encouraged to be hammed up to sound sensational, or
b] out-of-context - it's been edited, or, most likely,
c] all of the above.

The moment I see/hear things like this, I apply this rule, and just ignore it.

Evo, IMO, you're reacting exactly the way the producers expect - they're getting your goat.

OK, they have a website. Does their website say "We have no other purpose in life than to prepare for armageddon"? (I dunno. Maybe it does.)

 

[Ftheog]

Which family was doing the human target practice? And I have to say that the woman that said "We have no other purpose in life than to prepare for armageddon.", falls into the doomsday group, well, actually all 4 families believed in a doomsday scenario, and their actions were the result of this fear.

I can believe that most "preppers" do not wish to be associated with these people. I believe one prepper that posted here said that these types represent maybe 1 percent of preppers.

People that just wish to be more self sufficient, more power to them, groups that are doomsday believers, those people need help. I feel sorry for them. This thread is about that fringe.

most people who shoot use paper human targets, guns are a tool of self defense. the woman who said that is prepping for hyper-inflation and collapse of the economic system, so she is preparing for her version of armageddon. Look at how many people in the middle class have had their finances wiped out. Pensions gone, lost their homes, Social Security will be underfunded by 2035. That's not financial armageddon to you?

 

[Ftheog]

I am highly suspicious of anything anyone says through the eye of a camera. Nay, more than suspicious - if it sounds irrational, I assume it is
a] encouraged to be hammed up to sound sensational, or
b] out-of-context - it's been edited, or, most likely,
c] all of the above.

The moment I see/hear things like this, I apply this rule, and just ignore it.

Evo, IMO, you're reacting exactly the way the producers expect - they're getting your goat.

OK, they have a website. Does their website say "We have no other purpose in life than to prepare for armageddon"? (I dunno. Maybe it does.)

here is her site

http://thesurvivalmom.com/"

 

[Evo]

I am highly suspicious of anything anyone says through the eye of a camera. Nay, more than suspicious - if it sounds irrational, I assume it is
a] encouraged to be hammed up to sound sensational, or
b] out-of-context - it's been edited, or, most likely,
c] all of the above.

The moment I see/hear things like this, I apply this rule, and just ignore it.

I suggest that you watch the show before deciding.

 

[PrepperMike]

Suggest reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic

If you think it can't happen here just look at what the fed and the government are doing and what they propose.

 

[Evo]

Uhm...speaks for itself.

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/10/04/could-solar-storms-in-2012-cause-a-solar-emp/

Suggest reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic

If you think it can't happen here just look at what the fed and the government are doing and what they propose.

What exactly do you think is going to happen in the US? You seem to think this is a doomsday scenario, so I'll bend the rules a bit and let you state in a short paragraph what this scenario that you envison is.

 

[Ftheog]

Guest post by mama4x who blogs at Farming Salt & Light.

 

[Ftheog]

curious as to why my last post was deleted?

 

[Evo]

curious as to why my last post was deleted?

Check your private messages.

 

[PrepperMike]

Uhm...speaks for itself.

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/10/04/could-solar-storms-in-2012-cause-a-solar-emp/

What exactly do you think is going to happen in the US? You seem to think this is a doomsday scenario, so I'll bend the rules a bit and let you state in a short paragraph what this scenario that you envison is.

In the hyper-inflation scenario all your monetary savings are essentially useless as the prices skyrocket. Hyper-inflation is caused when government over prints money to fill in the blanks when revenue doesn't match outgo (sound familiar?) unless some drastic measures are taken the USA is lining up for this scenario to happen. Imagine all your money worthless, loaves of bread costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars, no social security, no welfare, no jobs. Do you think those that feel they are entitled will just sit back and starve? The great depression had two things going for it, first, everyone had a work-together and get-us-out-of-this attitude and second,we actually manufactured things in the USA. Now we have the me-first and entitlement crowd and no large industrial base to fall back on. Sorry, McDonalds won't save us.

 

[PrepperMike]

Since my last post on the subject of EMP was deleted because of linking to s sensationalist site, how about this one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/uk-minister-says-iran-has-carried-out-secret-missile-tests-alongside-public-military-maneuvers/2011/06/29/AGo7sUqH_story.html

With these missiles and a relatively small nuke designed for EMP the Iranians with a single missile could drive us nearly back to a pre-industrial country. So the possibility of an EMP is not as unlikely as we would wish it to be. Many of the radical Islam groups would relish being nuked if it meant they had brought us to our knees so MAD really doesn't mean anything to them.

 

[Ftheog]

ok, let's try this then

this is what a trillion dollar looks like, double stacked pallets of 100 dollar bills larger than a football field

our current debt is over 14 times of those, it is mathematically impossible to pay off, there is only two ways to deal with it, default or devalue the dollar with inflation to pay it off at a discounted rate, which further destroys the little wealth of the middle class

 

[micromass]

And who will insist that the US pays off his debt?? If the US goes bankrupt then it will drag the whole world down. Nobody wants this...

 

[Evo]

In the hyper-inflation scenario all your monetary savings are essentially useless as the prices skyrocket. Hyper-inflation is caused when government over prints money to fill in the blanks when revenue doesn't match outgo (sound familiar?) unless some drastic measures are taken the USA is lining up for this scenario to happen. Imagine all your money worthless, loaves of bread costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars, no social security, no welfare, no jobs. Do you think those that feel they are entitled will just sit back and starve? The great depression had two things going for it, first, everyone had a work-together and get-us-out-of-this attitude and second,we actually manufactured things in the USA. Now we have the me-first and entitlement crowd and no large industrial base to fall back on. Sorry, McDonalds won't save us.

Thanks. Nope, not going to happen, IMO.

I'm not going to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. It's your life, not mine. Unfortunately it was fear of banks that caused the Japanese to keep their money at home in small safes. Those that survived the Tsunami had their entire life's savings lost. And you know what, people that found those safes full of money and jewelry didn't steal them, they turned them into the police in hopes that the owners could be found.

I live very cheaply and practically. I can grow my own food, I'm a great cook from scratch. I sew, knit, crochet, about the only thing I don't do is spin my own yarn and weave cloth, but I can take clothes apart and make new clothes from the cloth. I know how to make patterns. I'm good at plumbing and carpentry (thanks to my mom and 1st husband.

But I don't fear any doomsday scenarious. I'm far more likely to die of a stroke or heart attack.

 

[PrepperMike]

So...basically you are prepared so you aren't afraid. That is all we preppers strive for. You are a prepper whether you admit it or not! :)