Electromagnet on Starship Orion

[darkdave3000]

TL;DR Summary

Can an electromagnet replace the steel pusher plate design?

Can an electromagnet push the ship forward by absorbing the momentum of a nuclear explosion via a magnetic field? Im thinking this will solve the problem of constantly having to repair the eroding plate if its replaced by a magnetic field sustained by a fission reactor generating power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

 

[Vanadium 50]

Can an electromagnet push the ship forward

Magnetic fields do no work.

If you meant something else please draw the field lines and coils.

 

[darkdave3000]

Why would a steel plate work and magnetic fields not work if we are dealing with charged particles? Doesn't the Earth absorb the momentum of the solar wind?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Draw the coils and draw the field lines, or admit you aren't being serious.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Magnetic fields do no work.

The explosion does the work. The question is about replacing the pusher plate with a pusher magnet.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Well let's see what he says. What he wrote has the field doing some sort of "absorbing".

I don't think he has thought this through beyond "magnets". Like "plastics".

 

[Ibix]

There's also the question of those uncharged neutrons and what they'd do to your DNA...

 

[Vanadium 50]

Isn't that how you gain superpowers?

 

[berkeman]

Isn't that how you gain superpowers?

Not for long...

 

[Drakkith]

Im thinking this will solve the problem of constantly having to repair the eroding plate if its replaced by a magnetic field sustained by a fission reactor generating power.

Magnetic fields don't help with all the uncharged particles and EM radiation from the explosion, and I fear the amount of charged particles might be too much for the magnetic field to handle. The energy of the charged particles is comparable to that inside a fusion reaction (I think, the temperatures appear to be of similar magnitudes), but while a fusion reactor has somewhere around a gram of material inside it, a nuclear explosion has hundreds of kilograms of 'stuff' flying out of it.

 

[darkdave3000]

You could have a fission reactor power the electromagnet with megawatts.

 

[Ibix]

You could have a fission reactor power the electromagnet with megawatts.

How heavy is that? What are the maintenance costs and the fuel costs on top of your drive fuel? How are you going to shield your passengers from the non-charged radiation and blast wave (which I rather suspect is the majority of the drive energy release)?

Engineering is never just a matter of saying "let's replace X component with Y component and everything will be better". There are always trade-offs, and I don't think we've even begun to scratch the surface of the support systems for the magnets that can turn the charged particles from a nuclear explosion. And you've removed the shielding against the non-charged stuff, so you need to think about that too.

 

[darkdave3000]

How heavy is that? What are the maintenance costs and the fuel costs on top of your drive fuel? How are you going to shield your passengers from the non-charged radiation and blast wave (which I rather suspect is the majority of the drive energy release)?

Engineering is never just a matter of saying "let's replace X component with Y component and everything will be better". There are always trade-offs, and I don't think we've even begun to scratch the surface of the support systems for the magnets that can turn the charged particles from a nuclear explosion. And you've removed the shielding against the non-charged stuff, so you need to think about that too.

Solve 1 problem at a time and then figure out ways to deal with the substantially reduced number of variables. For example maybe you can still have a pusher plate but have an electromagnet built in that is powered by said fission reactor and the pusher plate could experience less erosion because now it only needs to deal with neutrons. So yes replace X with Y component and Component Z has better survivability.

 

[Vanadium 50]

@darkdave3000 , this is swirling down the same drain as your previous thread. People are seriously trying to engage with you and you are just, to use an expression from your other thread "too much handwaving by the OP for this to stand in the technical PF forums".

As I said, "Draw the coils and draw the field lines, or admit you aren't being serious."

You didn't. What conclusion should we draw?

 

[darkdave3000]

@darkdave3000 , this is swirling down the same drain as your previous thread. People are seriously trying to engage with you and you are just, to use an expression from your other thread "too much handwaving by the OP for this to stand in the technical PF forums".

As I said, "Draw the coils and draw the field lines, or admit you aren't being serious."

You didn't. What conclusion should we draw?

Hello, if I had all the answers I wouldnt bother creating a thread to ask such questions.

What if the explosion had no neutrons in the fusion? Lets say a Helium 3 type of fusion? Would an electromagnet become viable then?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Then I have an answer for you. The answer is "no".

If you don't know how it works, we won't either.

 

[berkeman]

Thread closed for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

Hello, if I had all the answers I wouldnt bother creating a thread to ask such questions.

Well, you've gotten plenty of good answers in this thread. Thread will remain closed.