Geodesic Conjugate Points Explained

In summary, the conversation discusses the RNP equation from the book "Nature of space and time" by Penrose and Hawking. It explains that if the convergence $$\rho$$ is equal to a certain value at a certain point, then it will become infinite at a point within an affine parameter distance of $$\frac{1}{\rho_0}$$ if the null geodesic can be extended that far. The conversation also mentions a relation between $$\rho$$ and $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$, which can be derived using the strong energy condition and the positive norm of the shear. This result is important in understanding the RNP equation and its implications
  • #1
cr7einstein
87
2
Dear all,
I was reading "Nature of space and time" By Penrose and Hawking pg.13,

> If $$\rho=\rho_0$$ at $$\nu=\nu_0$$, then the RNP equation
>
> $$\frac{d\rho}{d\nu} = \rho^2 + \sigma^{ij}\sigma_{ij} + \frac{1}{n} R_{\mu\nu} l^\mu l^\nu$$
implies that the convergence $$\rho$$ will become infinite at a point $$q$$ within an affine parameter distance$$\frac{1}{\rho_0}$$ if the null geodesic can be extended that far.
>
> *if $$\rho=\rho_0$$ at $$\nu=\nu_0$$ then $$\rho$$ is greater than or equal to $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$. Thus there is a conjugate point before $$\nu=\nu_0 + \rho^{-1}$$.*

I don't understand many terms here. Firstly, what is affine parameter distance? And I am at loss as to how does one get the 2nd relation between $$\rho$$ and $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$. How can you derive it? Frankly, I don't understand ANYTHING about how does thhis equation come, though I suspect it just the Frobenius theorem.

Please give me DETAILED asnwers, as I have mentioned before, I am not too comfortable with it. I don't understand anything in blockquotes other than the RNP equation.

Thanks in advance!
 
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  • #2
Presumably by RNP you mean the Raychaudhuri equation, although the notations you have used are very non-standard and you seem to have redefined the expansion scalar to be its negation. Anyways, there isn't much detail involved. Just use the strong energy condition and the positive norm of the shear to get an differential inequality for the scalar ##\rho## and integrate to get the result. There should be a factor of ##1/3## that you seem to be missing, it follows from the Raychaudhuri equation. By the way this is a caustic not a pair of conjugate points.
 
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  • #3
I have typed the exact same lines as that of the book.I know that the notation is different from the standard Raychauduri Equation, but this is because thiis the unified Raychaudhari-Newman -penrose(RNP) equation...as hawking puts it. the $$\frac{1}{3}$$ you are talking about is $$n=3$$ fot timelike curves. Here's a link to the pdf of the book : http://www.benpadiah.com/otherstuff/elib/HawkingNatureOfSpaceTime.pdf And can you please help me get the desired result from the strong energy condition? I don't get the head or tail of how it can be done to get the positive norm of shear...
 
  • #4
For null geodesic fields you only need the weak energy condition, you don't need the strong energy condition.
The weak energy condition clearly implies that ##R_{\alpha\beta}l^{\alpha}l^{\beta} \geq 0## for any null vector ##l^a## (see p.8 of the pdf you linked).

Furthermore the shear has positive norm ##\sigma_{\alpha\beta}\sigma^{\alpha\beta} \geq 0## because it is space-like in both indices.

Therefore ##\frac{d\rho}{dv} \geq \rho^2 \Rightarrow \frac{d\rho}{\rho^2} \geq dv \Rightarrow \rho^{-1}|_{\rho}^{\rho_0} \geq v - v_0 \Rightarrow \rho \geq \frac{1}{\rho_0^{-1} - v + v_0}##.
 
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  • #5


Dear reader,

Thank you for your interest in understanding geodesic conjugate points. I will do my best to explain the concepts mentioned in the content you provided.

Firstly, an affine parameter is a type of parameter used to describe the path of a geodesic (a curve that represents the shortest distance between two points in a curved space). It is used because it remains constant along the geodesic, making it a useful tool for describing the path. The affine parameter distance is simply the distance along the geodesic measured in terms of this parameter.

Moving on to the second relation between $$\rho$$ and $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$, this is derived from the RNP equation mentioned in the content. The RNP equation is a mathematical expression that describes the behavior of a geodesic in a curved space. In this equation, $$\rho$$ represents the convergence of neighboring geodesics. In simpler terms, it measures how much the geodesics are bending towards each other.

Now, if we set $$\rho=\rho_0$$ at $$\nu=\nu_0$$, the RNP equation tells us that as we move along the geodesic, the convergence will increase and become infinite at a point $$q$$ within an affine parameter distance of $$\frac{1}{\rho_0}$$. In other words, at this point, the geodesics will be so close to each other that they will actually intersect.

To understand the second relation better, let's look at the denominator of $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$, which is $$\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu$$. As the affine parameter distance increases, the value of $$\nu$$ will also increase. Therefore, as we approach the conjugate point, the value of $$\nu_0-\nu$$ will decrease, making the denominator smaller. As a result, the overall value of $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$ will increase, indicating that the convergence is getting larger and approaching infinity.

I hope this explanation helps you in understanding the concepts mentioned in the content. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I would be happy to provide more detailed explanations. Additionally, I suggest consulting other resources on
 

Related to Geodesic Conjugate Points Explained

1. What are geodesic conjugate points?

Geodesic conjugate points are two points on a curved surface that are connected by a geodesic, which is the shortest path between the two points. These points have the property that any geodesic connecting them will be tangent to the surface at both points.

2. How are geodesic conjugate points used in science?

Geodesic conjugate points are used in various fields of science, including physics, mathematics, and engineering. They are particularly useful in studying the behavior of light and other electromagnetic waves, as well as in the analysis of curved surfaces and optimization problems.

3. What is the significance of geodesic conjugate points?

The significance of geodesic conjugate points lies in their role in the study of curved surfaces and geodesics. They allow us to analyze the behavior of light and other waves in curved spaces, as well as optimize paths between two points on a curved surface.

4. How do geodesic conjugate points differ from normal conjugate points?

Geodesic conjugate points are specific to curved surfaces, while normal conjugate points can exist on any type of surface. Additionally, geodesic conjugate points have the property that any geodesic connecting them will be tangent to the surface at both points, which is not necessarily true for normal conjugate points.

5. Can geodesic conjugate points be found on a flat surface?

No, geodesic conjugate points can only exist on curved surfaces. On a flat surface, all points are equidistant from each other and there are no geodesics connecting them, so the concept of geodesic conjugate points does not apply.

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