How to find Torque without Coefficient of Friction?

In summary: The teacher has chosen the point of contact with the floor as the axis. The only forces with moment about that point are the weight of the ladder and the normal force from the wall. What is the lever arm of the friction force about the point of contact with the floor?In summary, the conversation discusses a physics question about an 8-meter ladder leaning against a wall. The student has questions about the calculations involving the forces exerted by the wall and floor, as well as the friction between the ladder and the floor. The teacher has chosen the point of contact with the floor as the axis for calculating moments, resulting in the use of -W⊥ instead of Nf*μ in the equations.
  • #1
Tyler Riley
1
0
Hello! I am an AP Physics student and had a quick question for validity. I was prompted with this question in class today:
Example 7: An 8-meter ladder of weight 355 N leans at an angle of 50° to the floor against a smooth vertical wall. Assume the center of weight (gravity) for the ladder is at its linear center. Find the force exerted by the wall and the floor upon the ladder and the friction between the floor and the ladder.

I wasn't really paying attention and missed a class day of notes so I really don't understand anything really and was hoping you could answer my few questions.
Here is what I copied:

f = floor
r = lever arm
Ff = Friction force
Nf = Normal force or Floor
W = Weight
Nw = Normal force of Wall

rL = (4m)cos(50) = 2.57m
rW = (8m)sin(50) = 6.13m

∑Fy = 0
Nf - W = 0
Nf = W
355 N = 355 N

∑Fx = 0
Ff - Nw = 0

∑τ = 0
-W * rL - Nw * rW = 0
(-355 N) * (2.57) - Nw * (6.13) = 0
-912.35 = Nw * (6.13)
Nw = -148.833

Here are my questions:

Why isn't it (4m)sin(50) instead of (8m)sin(50)?

And why does she plug in
-W
in
-W * rL - Nw * rW = 0
instead of
Nf * μ
in
Nf * μ * rL - Nw * rW = 0
 
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  • #2
Tyler Riley said:
Why isn't it (4m)sin(50) instead of (8m)sin(50)?
I assume you have a diagram.
When taking moments, you have to choose an axis. Any axis will do, usually, but it helps to pick one which several forces act through. That eliminates them from the torque balance equation since they have no torque about that axis.
The teacher has chosen the point of contact with the floor as the axis. The only forces with moment about that point are the weight of the ladder and the normal force from the wall. What is the lever arm of the force from the wall about the point of contact with the floor?
Tyler Riley said:
And why does she plug in
-W
in
-W * rL - Nw * rW = 0
instead of
Nf * μ
in
Nf * μ * rL - Nw * rW = 0
Same reason.
 

1. How do you calculate torque without knowing the coefficient of friction?

To calculate torque without knowing the coefficient of friction, you can use the equation T = F x r, where T is torque, F is the force applied, and r is the distance from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force. This equation assumes that the coefficient of friction is not needed because the surface is smooth or the object is in motion.

2. Can torque be calculated without considering the coefficient of friction?

Yes, torque can be calculated without considering the coefficient of friction if the surface is smooth or if the object is in motion. In these cases, the coefficient of friction is not needed in the calculation of torque.

3. What is the impact of the coefficient of friction on torque?

The coefficient of friction affects the amount of frictional force between two surfaces in contact. This frictional force, in turn, affects the torque required to rotate an object. A higher coefficient of friction will result in a higher torque needed to rotate the object.

4. How can the coefficient of friction be determined experimentally?

The coefficient of friction can be determined experimentally by measuring the force required to move an object on a surface and dividing it by the weight of the object. This will give the coefficient of friction for that specific surface and object combination.

5. Can the coefficient of friction be assumed to be 0 for certain surfaces?

Yes, the coefficient of friction can be assumed to be 0 for certain surfaces, such as a smooth, polished surface or a rolling object. In these cases, the coefficient of friction is not needed in the calculation of torque.

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