How to introduce dissipation to a spinning top

In summary, the conversation discusses an axisymmetric spinning top that is pivoted at the point O and its Lagrangian, which includes the components of the inertia tensor at point O. The question of modifying the Lagrangian to account for dissipation at the pivot is raised, but it is determined that this cannot be done since the system is not a Hamiltonian system. General equations are suggested for handling dissipation, with the example of applying a dissipation torque.
  • #1
etotheipi
A axisymmetric spinning top is pivoted at O. The components of the inertia tensor ##I_O## at the point ##O##, with respect to the principal axes, are denoted ##A##, ##A## and ##C##. It's Lagrangian is$$\mathcal{L}(\mathbf{q}, \dot{\mathbf{q}}) = \frac{1}{2} A\dot{\theta}^2 + \frac{1}{2}A(\dot{\phi} \sin{\theta})^2 + \frac{1}{2}C(\dot{\psi} + \dot{\phi} \cos{\theta})^2 - mgh\cos{\theta}$$How can the Lagrangian be modified to account for dissipation at the pivot? We can't use the Rayleigh function here, because that is for velocity-dependent dissipation. Are there some references?
 
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  • #2
etotheipi said:
How can the Lagrangian be modified to account for dissipation at the pivot?
You can not modify the Lagrangian in such a way because the system with dissipation is not a Hamiltonian system. Use general equations:
$$\frac{d}{dt}\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot x^i}-\frac{\partial L}{\partial x^i}=Q_i(t,x,\dot x)$$
Dissipation means that ##Q_i\dot x^i\le 0##

If say you apply a dissipation torque ##\boldsymbol \tau## then
$$Q_i=\Big(\boldsymbol\tau,\frac{\partial\boldsymbol\omega}{\partial\dot x^i}\Big)$$
 
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1. What is dissipation in a spinning top?

Dissipation in a spinning top refers to the process of energy being lost as the top rotates. This can occur due to friction between the top and its supporting surface, air resistance, or other external factors.

2. Why is it important to introduce dissipation to a spinning top?

Introducing dissipation to a spinning top is important because it allows the top to eventually come to a stop. Without dissipation, the top would continue to spin indefinitely due to the conservation of angular momentum.

3. How can I introduce dissipation to a spinning top?

There are several ways to introduce dissipation to a spinning top. One method is to place the top on a rough or uneven surface, which will increase friction and cause the top to slow down. Another option is to attach a small weight to the top, which will create air resistance and decrease its rotational speed.

4. What are the effects of dissipation on a spinning top?

The effects of dissipation on a spinning top include a decrease in rotational speed and an eventual stop in motion. Dissipation can also cause the top to wobble or become unstable as it loses energy.

5. Can dissipation be controlled in a spinning top?

Yes, dissipation can be controlled in a spinning top by adjusting the surface it is placed on, the amount of weight attached to it, or other external factors. However, it is impossible to completely eliminate dissipation in a spinning top due to the laws of thermodynamics.

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