How to manipulate indices when Grassmannian numbers are present?

In summary, the conversation discusses evaluating the derivative of a term involving repeated indices and Grassmann variables. The calculation provided in the conversation appears to have a mistake in the second term, which should contain a free r-index instead of a. The correct calculation is given as C_{rb} \psi^b + \psi^{a}C_{ar}. The conversation also mentions the importance of distinguishing between left and right derivatives, and provides a resource for further reading on differentiation in Grassmann algebras.
  • #1
LCSphysicist
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Suppose i have a term like this one (repeated indices are being summed)

$$x = \psi^a C_{ab} \psi^b$$

Such that ##C_{ab} = - C_{ba}##, and ##\{\psi^a,\psi^b\}=0##. How do i evaluate the derivative of this term with respect to ##\psi_r##?

I mean, my attempt g oes to here

$$\frac{\partial x}{\partial \psi_r} = C_{rb} \psi^b + \psi^r C_{ar}$$

But, i think this is zero!!, isnt? Ok, maybe we can't change a and b in ##x## because we have the anticommuting property of psi, but since in the term above we have one psi for each term, i can't see a problem in change a to b, using the C antisymmetry property and getting 0.

What is wrong?
 
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  • #2
Why do you think it's zero?

Your calculation can't be right; look at the indices. Your second term should contain a free r-index, not a, and hitting the second psi with your derivative should give an addition minus sign.
 
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  • #3
What is the definition of derivative here? I.e. upper- vs lower case index
 
  • #4
Also you must distinguish between "left" and "right" derivatives!
 
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  • #5
haushofer said:
Why do you think it's zero?

Your calculation can't be right; look at the indices. Your second term should contain a free r-index, not a, and hitting the second psi with your derivative should give an addition minus sign.
Ups, just tiped it wrong.

So it should be

$$C_{rb} \psi^b + \psi^{a}C_{ar}$$

By the way

"Why do you think it's zero?"

Well,

$$C_{rb} \psi^b + \psi^a C_{ar} = C_{rb} \psi^b + \psi^b C_{br} = \psi^b ( C_{rb} - C_{rb} ) = 0$$

Where i have used that ##C## is anti-symmetric, and that since we are dealing only with indices, we "could" just say that ##A_{bc}x^{c} = x^{c}A_{bc}##.

malawi_glenn said:
What is the definition of derivative here? I.e. upper- vs lower case index
Ok, let's be more specific, derivating it with respesct to ##\psi^r##. So that the indices are fine.

vanhees71 said:
Also you must distinguish between "left" and "right" derivatives!
What do you mean?
 
  • #7
LCSphysicist said:
Ok, let's be more specific, derivating it with respect to ##\psi^r##. So that the indices are fine.
The word you're looking for is differentiating. :smile:
 
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1. How do I manipulate indices when dealing with Grassmannian numbers?

When manipulating indices with Grassmannian numbers, it is important to remember that these numbers do not commute. This means that changing the order of indices will result in a different value. To properly manipulate indices, you must use the anti-commutative properties of Grassmannian numbers.

2. Can I use traditional index notation when working with Grassmannian numbers?

No, traditional index notation cannot be used with Grassmannian numbers. Instead, you must use the wedge product notation, which represents the anti-commutative properties of these numbers.

3. How do I simplify expressions with Grassmannian numbers and indices?

Simplifying expressions with Grassmannian numbers and indices involves using the identities and properties of these numbers, such as the distributive and associative properties. It is also important to keep track of the order of indices and use the wedge product notation correctly.

4. Are there any rules for manipulating indices with Grassmannian numbers?

Yes, there are several rules for manipulating indices with Grassmannian numbers. These include the anti-commutative property, the distributive property, and the associative property. It is also important to remember that indices cannot be repeated in a single term.

5. How can I apply Grassmannian numbers and indices in my research?

Grassmannian numbers and indices are commonly used in theoretical physics and mathematics, particularly in areas such as quantum mechanics and differential geometry. They can be applied to solve problems involving fermionic systems, differential forms, and supersymmetry. Familiarizing yourself with the properties and rules of these numbers can greatly enhance your research in these fields.

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