Hydrogen permeation through carbon-carbon composites

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In summary, the conversation is about finding information on the permeation of hydrogen through carbon fiber reinforced carbon composites. The person needs help with their research project and is looking for estimates on hydrogen permeation through this material. They are specifically interested in coatings that can be applied at high temperatures to prevent leakage. The conversation also mentions the use of carbon-carbon composites in containing gases, with the suggestion that it may not be effective without proper design considerations. Several sources and articles are suggested for further research on the topic.
  • #1
RandomGuy88
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I am attempting to find information about the permeation of hydrogen through carbon fiber reinforced carbon composites and was wondering if anyone could provide some help. I don't have many details to provide. We are in the early stages of a research project in which hydrogen may be flowing through channels made of a carbon-carbon composite and I would like to make some estimates of hydrogen permeation through this material.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
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  • #2
RandomGuy88 said:
I am attempting to find information about the permeation of hydrogen through carbon fiber reinforced carbon composites and was wondering if anyone could provide some help. I don't have many details to provide. We are in the early stages of a research project in which hydrogen may be flowing through channels made of a carbon-carbon composite and I would like to make some estimates of hydrogen permeation through this material.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Carbon fibers itself are porous (10-20% micro-porosity typical) and do not represent an effective gas barrier. Also, carbon-carbon composites may have macro-porocity, depending on construction of composite plies. Overall, you can realistically expect it leaking hydrogen in copious amount.
 
  • #3
trurle said:
Carbon fibers itself are porous (10-20% micro-porosity typical) and do not represent an effective gas barrier. Also, carbon-carbon composites may have macro-porocity, depending on construction of composite plies. Overall, you can realistically expect it leaking hydrogen in copious amount.

Thank you, this is very helpful. Would you happen to know of any sources that may provide this information?

Would you expect the carbon-carbon composites to be ineffective at containing any gas? Do you know of any coatings that can be applied (at very high temperatures ~3000K) that may work?
 
  • #4
RandomGuy88 said:
Thank you, this is very helpful. Would you happen to know of any sources that may provide this information?

Would you expect the carbon-carbon composites to be ineffective at containing any gas? Do you know of any coatings that can be applied (at very high temperatures ~3000K) that may work?
I remember some presentations on conference about silicon carbide coating over carbon for the high-temperature gas barrier function. The thickness of coating to be effective was 3mm. The main problem was coating cracking. Sorry, do not remember exact reference.

Regarding 3000K temperature, performance of C/C composite is largely unknown. The test setup is too difficult to make.
For up to 2500C see
http://www.iccm-central.org/Proceedings/ICCM17proceedings/Themes/Materials/CARBON - CARBON COMPOSITES/D3.6 Kobayashi.pdf

Regarding "carbon-carbon composites to be ineffective at containing any gas" statement, it depends on acceptable leakage rates and application. Definitely the design without any drainage of leaked gas would not work. Design with chemical getter may work for some time (likely minutes in rocket motor-like applications). Design with non-enclosed space or pumped vacuum on other side of carbon-carbon conduit will likely be an acceptable solution. Could you be more specific about your application?
 
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  • #5
RandomGuy88 said:
I am attempting to find information about the permeation of hydrogen through carbon fiber reinforced carbon composites and was wondering if anyone could provide some help. I don't have many details to provide. We are in the early stages of a research project in which hydrogen may be flowing through channels made of a carbon-carbon composite and I would like to make some estimates of hydrogen permeation through this material.
This might help - https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1249338

There may be such an article in https://www.journals.elsevier.com/international-journal-of-hydrogen-energy - however, I am not aware of such an article.

I believe in most cases, different groups are looking for coatings to protect the carbon-fiber composites. SiC is one such possibility.

Another example - https://avs.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1116/1.4977106?journalCode=jva
 
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1. What is hydrogen permeation?

Hydrogen permeation is the process by which hydrogen molecules diffuse through a material, such as a carbon-carbon composite, due to differences in hydrogen concentration on either side of the material.

2. Why is hydrogen permeation through carbon-carbon composites important?

Hydrogen permeation through carbon-carbon composites is important because it can affect the performance and durability of these materials, especially in high-temperature and high-pressure environments. It can also have implications for hydrogen storage and transportation technologies.

3. How does the structure of carbon-carbon composites affect hydrogen permeation?

The structure of carbon-carbon composites, including the arrangement of carbon fibers and the type of matrix material used, can greatly influence the rate of hydrogen permeation. This is due to variations in the porosity, surface area, and diffusion pathways within the material.

4. What factors can influence the rate of hydrogen permeation through carbon-carbon composites?

Some factors that can influence the rate of hydrogen permeation through carbon-carbon composites include temperature, pressure, hydrogen concentration, and the presence of impurities or defects in the material. Additionally, the type and thickness of any protective coatings on the surface of the composite can also impact hydrogen permeation.

5. How can scientists study and measure hydrogen permeation through carbon-carbon composites?

Scientists can study and measure hydrogen permeation through carbon-carbon composites using techniques such as gas permeation testing, electrochemical methods, and thermal desorption spectroscopy. These methods allow for the measurement of hydrogen flux, diffusion coefficients, and other important parameters related to hydrogen permeation.

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