Is There a Double Standard in Dating Expectations for Men and Women?

[Cyrus]

I always believed that more I grow, more I would be able to accommodate differences/ other people needs. It is true till now, I am far more tolerant towards the differences than I was before.

I totally agree with Turbo. People shouldn't always consider their own needs in the relationships - there should be lots of understanding, sacrifice, and trust. From my perspective, ideal relationship is giving all of myself to someone else - so, if someone wants me to do this every Tuesday and that every Sunday, I wouldn't have any objection. And, I shouldn't expect anything in return. I am good and safe from unhealthy relationships because I don't do anything on that list and neither try to show off that I am very good/attractive.

Wow, I've never had someone openly say the want to be walked all over by their woman. I think you missed the point of the OP's complaint.

Its funny you think you're 'good and safe from unhealthy relationships' if you said what is underlined in the same breath. I don't know how you expect to meet women, or make friends that are guys by NOT trying to show off you are very good/attractive.

 

[GeorginaS]

We're not really being fair to the ladies.
Females:
- Need to look very good.
- Keep weight down.
- Be sensitive and sweet.
- Cook, clean, chores.
- Ward off degrading propositions intimately ( I don't know how else to word it)
- Raise annoying kids.

This is a shallow list, but it is just as ridiculous as saying all men sing and write poetry.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if women raised non-annoying kids.

 

[Moonbear]

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if women raised non-annoying kids.

Where's the check box on the order form for non-annoying ones? I need to make sure I don't miss it!

 

[rootX]

Wow, I've never had someone openly say the want to be walked all over by their woman. I think you missed the point of the OP's complaint.

I was talking about the ideal one and long term relationships. Anyways, I think we are very good at hating /find faults in others. So, he shouldn't think about divorcing his wife for tiny things. Things can get worse, if he doesn't give in/try to be more tolerant because smaller differences can grow larger over time. Sh*t happens everywhere. It is essential to make some sacrifices in long term relationships.

Its funny you think you're 'good and safe from unhealthy relationships' if you said what is underlined in the same breath. I don't know how you expect to meet women, or make friends that are guys by NOT trying to show off you are very good/attractive.

It's very hard to make friends/get women if I don't show off (maybe 2-4 women over entire life and 1 new friend per 4-5 year). But, all friends/relationships I made that way, are there forever. I have never argued with them nor ever hated them. It's very close to ideal . And, it also prevents people, who are not good for me, from developing personal relationships with me (which makes me safe).

 

[G01]

Speaking on behalf of just myself, as a married man I honestly don't care what a woman brings to the table as long as there's good sex involved. I'm 25. I've been married for 5 years (we've been together for a little over 10yrs). I've been through all the motions of cuddling, arguing, spending time together, and all that garbage couples do. I'm tired of it. I don't care if my wife cooks, cleans, does laundry, or whatever for me since I can do all that myself. At this point in my life I want the sex, nothing more.

Well, I have never been married, but it is my impression that if all you want is sex, then your not looking for marriage and that is probably why you are jaded and bitter. It sounds to me like you got married before you even knew what marriage was about.

Also, as far as I am aware (correct me if I'm wrong married folk), but marriage also isn't about having a woman cook and clean for you. If that is what someone wants they should hire a maid and butler (or if they can only afford one- a "mutler")

I think you need to sit down with yourself and figure out what marriage is. Then you need to decide if you want marriage at this point. It sounds to me like you don't.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Hmm I was unfair in the OP. Women do have to do unnecessary stuff too. I still think when it comes to sex, men do have to jump through more hoops than women.

As far as my marriage goes, I'm actually married to a great woman that wants to be with me because of who I am. My problem is that she's too conservative for me. Feels like my mother


~J

 

[DaveC426913]

Hmmmm, the last guy I dated just said "my name is... google me". After 3 hours of reading about him, I was putty in his hands.

Wow. A man's pick up line is "Google me" and it works. I don't know what he does but it must be interesting enough that I want to meet him.

 

[Evo]

Wow. A man's pick up line is "Google me" and it works. I don't know what he does but it must be interesting enough that I want to meet him.

Yeah, you would, he's that interesting. Many people on this forum have at least heard of the incident that he's at the core of.

 

[Dale]

As far as my marriage goes, I'm actually married to a great woman that wants to be with me because of who I am. My problem is that she's too conservative for me. Feels like my mother

Good to know that Oedipus is still alive and well!

Seriously Jordan, try to look at this from your wife's perspective. How sexy do you think it makes her feel towards you that you think of her like your mother (and therefore for her to probably think of you as a boy)? And don't claim that you never told her how you feel, after 10 years she knows.

Given the dynamic you have expressed here, the list you put in the OP is not a list of romantic ideas but a list of chores: you expect to be given your sexual allowance for doing your sexual chores. How can that do anything other than confuse her? She is probably (hopefully) having trouble reconciling feeling sexy towards you with feeling motherly towards you.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Hmm I was unfair in the OP. Women do have to do unnecessary stuff too. I still think when it comes to sex, men do have to jump through more hoops than women.

As far as my marriage goes, I'm actually married to a great woman that wants to be with me because of who I am. My problem is that she's too conservative for me. Feels like my mother


~J

Have you talked to her about how you feel? I don't mean the "mother" thing, necessarily, but have you told her that you're unhappy because you want more sex, and that you feel like you're having to jump through hoops just to get any at all?

 

[BobG]

Men

- Take her out to dinner.
- Make her feel special.
- Get job/house/car/career/etc.
- Write poems.
- Write/sing/play songs and instruments.
- get special skills.
- Stand out from the crowd.
- Financial security.
- And countless other things men have to do to "mate."

In the end, sex not guaranteed.

Women

"I'm in the mood tonight."

Sex guaranteed.


Why doesn't this happen to me?

http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/6583/et051.html

So...if I tell her I'm an alien, she'll do me? Why didn't anyone tell me this before?!??!

Telling her you're an alien only satisfies the "Stand out from the crowd" part. You still have to take her out to dinner, make her feel special, and write poems, and play an instrument.

Admittedly, the "alien culture" thing gives you a little bit of a pass in that it helps to explain away the fact that your poems and songs are so horridly bad. It also gives you a pass on owning a house and car or having a job since you haven't been on Earth long enough to acquire those sorts of things.

The "special skills" part gets a lot more challenging if you claim to be an alien. You're expected to do something really spectacular, like raise animals from the dead. Ressurecting a "dead" housefly sometimes works. If you freeze a live housefly, you can usually restore it to conciousness just by thawing it out.

 

[LightbulbSun]

Blah, I hate all of this contrived ********. Just be yourself, and if you oppose doing something then stand pat. For christ sake, do we lose all of our individuality when we're in a relationship? Are we this sterile that we have to formulate on how to get sex?

 

[rewebster]

Hmmmm, the last guy I dated just said "my name is... google me". After 3 hours of reading about him, I was putty in his hands.

ok guys---there's your challenge


(rules quite a few of "us" out probably )

 

[rewebster]

The nice 'thing' about it all, to me, is that if a man or woman is looking for 'this' or 'that' , or 'this AND that', or whatever, there one of the opposite sex to match the same attitude. From men that want just big boobs, there's women out there that present 'them' as their main and almost only attribute(s). Women who wants a man with a big (XXXXXX), we men will keep presenting ourselves til the woman says, "OMG, it's him.. he's the one with the BIG (XXXXXX)---I CAN'T ask for MORE!"


I really find this one woman funny--she wanted a long haired tall man with native American looks---she told me she had found three 'but' they all drank too much she found out after some time with each.

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, you would, he's that interesting. Many people on this forum have at least heard of the incident that he's at the core of.

Someone at the core of an "incident?" Sounds like a perfect match for Evo!

 

[rewebster]

Someone at the core of an "incident?" Sounds like a perfect match for Evo!

was there a thread about all of this? (before my time?)

 

[Moonbear]

was there a thread about all of this? (before my time?)

I don't think so. I don't know who she's talking about either.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I don't think so. I don't know who she's talking about either.

I think that was when Evo met the Unibomber.

 

[DaveC426913]

I assumed she was talking about that speaker guy she had a crush on last year.

 

[rewebster]

I assumed she was talking about that speaker guy she had a crush on last year.

do you mean D2 ?-----hmmm, that doesn't match up...maybe she didn't talk about it for some reason or another in any of the threads... (one of those (very) <secret> things----<shhhhhhhhhhhhh...>)

 

[whitay]

I don't understand the OP. If that's what women want/expect from you then I would expect the equivalent in return and if you are no expecting nothing in return then you are simply being played by these women. Your hindsight should tell you that this is no fun and isn't worth your time.

The inequality between men and women is unfortunately apparent every where. I remember in high school sports classes, girls only had to do so much compared to the boys to achieve the same marks. I never seen the point in that and was essentially grounded in the fundamentals of us students that women where physically weaker than men which is in some instances not true. I cannot remember if there was more in other classes or at an earlier stage however I feel that it is possible that inequality is embedded as young children and carries through on into adulthood.

I am not one to speak of relationships as I have never had a girlfriend myself. However what I will say is that at no point would I embark in a relationship with someone when there was nothing I could learn from her (at my age this doesn't seem to be quite the attribute just yet but is in the older women I meet) and that what it is that I choose to do wasn't a concern and vice versa and that expectations weren't present because of the possible swaying from expectations to demands. Also I see financial burdens to be a simple unhealthy hazard, especially when it is only the one partner with the issue and relies on the other.

I don't understand why the women and men are saying that they need to be able to cook, clean, iron, wash and what not. These are simple essentials in daily life and although they consume a good proportion of time which I would rather spend reading or doing some else, I have no choice. I would say that they are no criteria but a simple fundamental such as communication.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't understand why the women and men are saying that they need to be able to cook, clean, iron, wash and what not. These are simple essentials in daily life and although they consume a good proportion of time which I would rather spend reading or doing some else, I have no choice.

Attending to one's regular chores is a sign of maturity. Or, more accurately, not attending to one's chores is a sign of immaturity or something else. If a potential mate cannot or does not handle the basics, it should set off alarm bells and it warrants scrutiny.

As you say, a fundamental.

 

[Redbelly98]

Another inequality: for the most part, men don't worry if a woman they're interested in just might turn out to be a stalker or other weirdo.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Another inequality: for the most part, men don't worry if a woman they're interested in just might turn out to be a stalker or other weirdo.

Maybe they should..

 

[rewebster]

Another inequality: for the most part, men don't worry if a woman they're interested in just might turn out to be a stalker or other weirdo.

yeah well--I had one and it wasn't fun---bad to the point of her calling me at work so much that the boss called me to the office, her waiting at my car and my apartment---bad, just bad

 

[Jordan Joab]

I wouldn't say everything I've put into my marriage has been all for sex but I'd be lying if I said I didn't do X trying to get it.

I'm not sure exactly what I'm experiencing presently. One of the factors might be that I've only been sexually involved with 4 women in my life and relationship-wise with less than 10 and in most of those cases they seemed to approach me first. I don't think I've ever dealt with rejection like other guys do. No clue really.


~J

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The girls I have dated rarely ever did much of anything for me. They were mostly so preoccupied with wanting to be treated right that they never gave much mind to treating me right. The vast majority of women I have met were like this. Obviously all he really wants is sex right?

Another inequality: for the most part, men don't worry if a woman they're interested in just might turn out to be a stalker or other weirdo.

I've met plenty of guys who have wound up the target of the attentions of a crazy woman. I personally once had a girl I met show up the next day at my work telling everyone that she was my girlfriend. All I did was kiss her.

 

[DaveC426913]

The girls I have dated rarely ever did much of anything for me. They were mostly so preoccupied with wanting to be treated right that they never gave much mind to treating me right. The vast majority of women I have met were like this.

How do you end up going on a date with a woman if you sense this? Do you make a habit of blind dates?

Personally, I tend to know the women and then decide to date them. I date them because I like them, not the other way 'round.

 

[LightbulbSun]

These lyrics will help the OP:

Run away, run away, run away
Run away, run away, run away
Just one second, and I was left with nothing
Her fragrance still pulsates through damp air
That day came to an end
And she had lost in me, her credence

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

How do you end up going on a date with a woman if you sense this? Do you make a habit of blind dates?

Personally, I tend to know the women and then decide to date them. I date them because I like them, not the other way 'round.

People often represent themselves differently on dates and such than what they are really like in your average day to day situation. One of the things that have happened to me often is the woman who says that they always did all of these great things for their exs and they never returned the favour but when I do those things for her she does not return the favour.

I had a girlfriend who stated that she loved to read but during the time we dated she never read a single book, not even the one I gave her as a present.

I dated a girl that said she loves to take care of her man but what she really meant was that she wants her man to suffer through what ever it is she feels like doing 'for him' whether he likes it or not.

 

[Cyrus]

People often represent themselves differently on dates and such than what they are really like in your average day to day situation. One of the things that have happened to me often is the woman who says that they always did all of these great things for their exs and they never returned the favour but when I do those things for her she does not return the favour.

I had a girlfriend who stated that she loved to read but during the time we dated she never read a single book, not even the one I gave her as a present.

I dated a girl that said she loves to take care of her man but what she really meant was that she wants her man to suffer through what ever it is she feels like doing 'for him' whether he likes it or not.

Im just curious, what great things did you do for her? (You don't have to say if you don't want to though.)

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Im just curious, what great things did you do for her? (You don't have to say if you don't want to though.)

Took them places. Gave them back rubs. Cooked for them. Ect. And then there are the ever popular sexual favours that many women complain they never receive no matter how much they do said favour for their partners. Then they often stop doing those favours since they never liked doing them anyway and now they are getting what they want.

From what I have seen it seems that it is likely much easier to get what you want from the average woman if you don't do much for her in the first place. apparently you need to make them feel like you might leave them any time and so they need to work to keep you. I actually had an ex tell me that I should never have told her that she didn't have to worry about me cheating or leaving her because she suddenly felt like there was no longer any point to doing anything for me. Not that she had been doing much to begin with.

 

[Cyrus]

Took them places. Gave them back rubs. Cooked for them. Ect. And then there are the ever popular sexual favours that many women complain they never receive no matter how much they do said favour for their partners. Then they often stop doing those favours since they never liked doing them anyway and now they are getting what they want.

From what I have seen it seems that it is likely much easier to get what you want from the average woman if you don't do much for her in the first place. apparently you need to make them feel like you might leave them any time and so they need to work to keep you. I actually had an ex tell me that I should never have told her that she didn't have to worry about me cheating or leaving her because she suddenly felt like there was no longer any point to doing anything for me. Not that she had been doing much to begin with.

Wow, why would you tell her that? My policy is I don't do anything for a girl unless she does something for me first. Then I'll do something for her. Repeat this cycle, forever. If she asks me for something but has not done something herself, I'll just say ummmmmmm no. Its funny becuase most people are not used to getting a direct no by someone else saying it with a straight face. It's very effective becasuse then the person will look/feel stupid because its obvious to both of you that they got caught trying to using you. They will try to recover by being nice to you after that because they don't want to appear like someone that uses other people, even though 9 times out of 10 they are full of you know what and actually do try to use other people.

Basically, what you said in bold is correct. For me, its not so much as I would make her feel that way, but that I actually would leave her if someone better caught my attention.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Wow, why would you tell her that? My policy is I don't do anything for a girl unless she does something for me first. Then I'll do something for her. Repeat this cycle, forever. If she asks me for something but has not done something herself, I'll just say ummmmmmm no. Its funny becuase most people are not used to getting a direct no by someone else saying it with a straight face. It's very effective becasuse then the person will look/feel stupid because its obvious to both of you that they got caught trying to using you. They will try to recover by being nice to you after that because they don't want to appear like someone that uses other people, even though 9 times out of 10 they are full of you know what and actually do try to use other people.

Basically, what you said in bold is correct. For me, its not so much as I would make her feel that way, but that I actually would leave her if someone better caught my attention.

I told her that because she was worried that I was more interested in a friend of mine than her. I was in love with her and had no intentions of leaving. I was too blinded at the time by the rosy tinted love goggles to pay attention to the fact that she did not seem to value me very highly. She just told me she did and gave me affection and everything was fine, in my head anyway.

At any rate I don't like the idea of keeping score but at the same time its hard not to notice when someone has much higher expectations of you than they feel you should have of them. I'd like to find someone who does things for me because she likes to and not just because she feels obligated to. Someone who cares about me and values me as something more than just a means of getting what they want. That would be nice.

 

[Cyrus]

I told her that because she was worried that I was more interested in a friend of mine than her. I was in love with her and had no intentions of leaving. I was too blinded at the time by the rosy tinted love goggles to pay attention to the fact that she did not seem to value me very highly. She just told me she did and gave me affection and everything was fine, in my head anyway.

At any rate I don't like the idea of keeping score but at the same time its hard not to notice when someone has much higher expectations of you than they feel you should have of them. I'd like to find someone who does things for me because she likes to and not just because she feels obligated to. Someone who cares about me and values me as something more than just a means of getting what they want. That would be nice.

Bla, insecurity in a woman is a huge turn-off for me. When girls try to pull that kind of crap I tell them exactly what they don't want to hear. Does this make me look fat? Yes. Are my eyes pretty? No. Don't ask me these stupid questions...they have no point and are signs of insecurity. Now, she should stop and think: if you were fat or had ugly eyes do you really think I'd be sitting here spending my time with you? No, I wouldnt.

Well, no one likes to keep score. But then again, unless you want to be used you better keep mental note. I wouldn't know about the expecations though, because usually I'm the one with much, much higher expecations and I make them very clear. Well, people do go out of their way and do nice things for others, but that's usually after they get to know them pretty well and have determined this person is worth going out of their way. But the key is they have to know you pretty well. If all she knows is that you will run through hoops for her all day long, she ant going to do squat from the goodness of her heart for you -ever.