Is there life in the universe, and if so has it visited Earth?

[CEL]

Here is the description of a UFO sighting, with many witnesses.

Last Saturday morning, about 9am on a sunny day, I was driving roughly north in a semi-rural area just south of Washington, DC, when I spotted a black flying saucer that appeared to be hovering a half-mile or so ahead, about 50 yards up. It was flat on the bottom and very streamlined and symmetrical – somewhat like two tear drops placed sideways and set on a flat surface. It looked to be about the size of a car. I, along with a handful of other drivers slowed to a crawl to watch this thing float along very, very slowly.

What do you guys think of it?

 

[gareth]

Here is the description of a UFO sighting, with many witnesses.

What do you guys think of it?

Without a reference to the source of the text, or the context of the account, it is just prose.

 

[CEL]

Without a reference to the source of the text, or the context of the account, it is just prose.

It is the account of a guy named Ken Fischer. It happened last May around 9am near Washington DC. What more do you need?

 

[DaveC426913]

What more do you need?

Again with the 'what more do you need'. Have you learned nothing from this thread?

 

[baywax]

Again, I've got to ask. What about this object was worthy of note at all?

Sorry about my speculations. The note worthy thing about the object was that it was defying the law of gravity.

I'm done with this topic now thanks.

 

[CEL]

Again with the 'what more do you need'. Have you learned nothing from this thread?

Why again? I never used this expression before.

 

[DaveC426913]

Again, I've got to ask. What about this object was worthy of note at all?

The note worthy thing about the object was that it was defying the law of gravity.

Yes, but clearly you interpret it as defying gravity in a way that a balloon, blimp or dirigible doesn't.

I'm not trying to deride you here, in reviewing my comments, I wonder if my critiquing your account hasn't come across as overly-incredulous. I apoloigize if I've given that impression. I'm genuinely interested in exploring it.

I do, however, think you're leaving an important piece out of your description without realizing it.

 

[DaveC426913]

Why again? I never used this expression before.

Heh. I was disremembering https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=267244&highlight=account" thread. Hey, I got 2/3rds of the letters right...

 

[baywax]

Yes, but clearly you interpret it as defying gravity in a way that a balloon, blimp or dirigible doesn't.

I'm not trying to deride you here, in reviewing my comments, I wonder if my critiquing your account hasn't come across as overly-incredulous. I apoloigize if I've given that impression. I'm genuinely interested in exploring it.

I do, however, think you're leaving an important piece out of your description without realizing it.

Well Dave, there's not much more to say about it. Besides, its attaching a stigma to my newly minted gold status I don't need!

I'll give it to you one more time though.

I'm traveling in the passenger side of a car doing 110 kmph or so... I always look out the window because I am always checking out the flora and the geology of the area... and watching for moose or bears... like Sarah Palin would be doing.

I'm in a calm state of mind, surprisingly, since there are two kids in the back seat doing what kids do on a road trip. And I'm congratulating myself on being so calm and rational in the midst of this.

So I look out and up slightly and there's this grey metallic tube with a "flute" at the end of it that is octagonal or decagonal (didn't have time to count the facets). At first I questioned what I was seeing (during the 5 seconds I had to do so). I looked under it and all around it to see if it was part of a transformer or a helicopter or even a transceiver. But I confirmed, to myself, that it is not attached to anything and that it was floating over the terrain beneath it.

Then I couldn't see it any longer because of the trees and topography around it. That's the story. I'm trying not to interject any of my interpretations of the event or speculate about its function or purpose because that pollutes the inquiry. Like I said, I am sorry I had to go and put my two cents in about what it might be doing. Like any sighting of an unidentified object, there's no way to tell where its from or what its doing.

But, deductive reasoning would suggest these things are from Earth since our deductions are based on what we, as humans, are capable of doing and that doesn't include traveling for light-years at a time... and surviving... to distant solar systems.

 

[Phrak]

Yes there is intelligent life.
No, they don't visit Earth.
They avoid it like the plague.
That's why they wear the plague resistant space suits with the big eyes.

 

[DaveC426913]

Well Dave, there's not much more to say about it. Besides, its attaching a stigma to my newly minted gold status I don't need!

Sorry, I've misled you. The 'you're leaving something out' comment was actually directed at the other incident, the "white grain of rice in the sky" incident. I was trying to figure out what about the incident was unexplainable.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yes there is intelligent life.
No, they don't visit Earth.
They avoid it like the plague.
That's why they wear the plague resistant space suits with the big eyes.

Okay, we get it. You think this is silly.
Got it.

Now, if you don't mind, we're trying to have a discussion. If you have nothing to contirbute, try elsewhere.

 

[baywax]

Sorry, I've misled you. The 'you're leaving something out' comment was actually directed at the other incident, the "white grain of rice in the sky" incident. I was trying to figure out what about the incident was unexplainable.

The white rice crispy was unusual because it was at a height somewhere inbetween where a small aircraft would be flying and where passenger jets fly. And it just sat there. No engine noise of a helicopter, not even the shape of a helicopter. This wasn't a blimp either, as far as I could tell, and I've seen plenty of them including the Good Year one.

The most unusual part about it was that it was going in no particular direction except for a slow drift toward the west. It seemed to have deliberately slowed to a halt where it was and I don't know any conventional aircraft that can do that without wings or thrusters and a lot of noise. This also had no lights visible, but it was around midday and a semi-clear sky.

What is really striking is that it seemed unabashed about being noticed. It just sat there while I starred at it. I took a good 3 minutes out to watch it. During that time about 3 kids saw it. The adults saw me staring in the sky but I doubt they saw what I was concentrating on. When I looked away and back again it was gone. We don't have any air force bases in the immediate area.

 

[vincentm]

I think there is life elsewhere, given the whole space-time thing, the probabilities of other forms to be intelligent civilizations is there. Are they visiting us? I have to say I'm extremely skeptical.

 

[gareth]

I would have to say there is intelligent life out there. I'm on the fence on whether they've paid a visit or not, but I would tipping slightly to the 'they have' side of the fence.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The white rice crispy was unusual because it was at a height somewhere inbetween where a small aircraft would be flying and where passenger jets fly. And it just sat there. No engine noise of a helicopter, not even the shape of a helicopter.

I'm not sure what to think about the shape, but some helicopters have the ability to hover relatively silently. I'm not sure if this is done with dampers, directed exhaust, or both, but it is done. Is it possible that a large helicopter hovering silently at a high altitude, or a smaller one at a lower altitude, could account for what you saw?

 

[russ_watters]

Also, please note that above a few thousand feet, it is impossible for a human to judge height via depth perception alone. You need something to provide a frame of reference, such as looking at an object of known size and judging the altitude based on how big it appears. But that can be problematic too - since many different types of jets are the same configuration, it is very common to underestimate the altitude of a large jet or overestimate the altitude of a small one.

 

[baywax]

Also, please note that above a few thousand feet, it is impossible for a human to judge height via depth perception alone. You need something to provide a frame of reference, such as looking at an object of known size and judging the altitude based on how big it appears. But that can be problematic too - since many different types of jets are the same configuration, it is very common to underestimate the altitude of a large jet or overestimate the altitude of a small one.

That's true. My sense was that it was quite a distance from me yet close enough for observation... on both ends.

Ivan... this is Canada, i have to keep reminding you guys! We don't have those voodoo choppers up here. There's no need for them anyway. Half the time they're flying over dense rain forest, or what's left of it. So, unless their going to spend 600 million bucks on technology that spares a few skunk's and bear's ears... we don't have the technology.

This object was white with no wings, no blades, no rudders, no strings attached. Gareth has a video from Mass. of an object he thought might be the same type of phenomenon. But it is a darker colour, has a more organic shape to it.

Here it is.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=qvufnG...eature=related

Its close but, no cigar (pardon the pun).

 

[kasse]

Yes, everyone here is crazy except you.

Everyone doesn't believe in visiting aliens.

 

[DaveC426913]

Here it is.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=qvufnG...eature=related

Bzzt. Mangled URL.

This object was white with no wings, no blades, no rudders, no strings attached.

I'm still trying to find out how it was, not only unexplained, but unexplainable as a conventional lighter-than-air craft.

While it may not have looked like anything you recognized, it wasn't doing anything unexplainable.

 

[baywax]

Bzzt. Mangled URL.



I'm still trying to find out how it was, not only unexplained, but unexplainable as a conventional lighter-than-air craft.

While it may not have looked like anything you recognized, it wasn't doing anything unexplainable.

One more try with the URL.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=qvufnGibOtU&feature=related

I couldn't explain what a white oblong object was doing, semi-stationary in the sky. It may happen all the time out where you are. Not here.

 

[baywax]

Everyone doesn't believe in visiting aliens.

Not unless we're invited.

 

[CEL]

One more try with the URL.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=qvufnGibOtU&feature=related

I couldn't explain what a white oblong object was doing, semi-stationary in the sky. It may happen all the time out where you are. Not here.

I don't know how things are in Canada. Where I live, white oblong clouds remain semi-stationary in the sky, drifting slowly with the breeze.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't know how things are in Canada. Where I live, white oblong clouds remain semi-stationary in the sky, drifting slowly with the breeze.

I'm going to take his word for it that it wasn't a cloud. Frankly, if a small, isolated, discrete and substantial cloud in the foreground were not moving along with the all the fluffy background clouds in the distance, I'd be quite alarmed, UFO or no.


But I'm still not sure what it was doing that ruled-out a lighter-than-air craft. As I said, just because he couldn't identify it doesn't mean there was anything unexplainable about it. It was behaving well within parameters of an extremely plausible explanation. I haven't heard anything that contra-indicates that.

I think I've met the criteria for explaining the sighting satisfactorily, based on the details provided; I now put the onus on the accounter (i.e. baywax) to refute the explanation.

Anyway, this is getting nowhere.

 

[baywax]

I'm going to take his word for it that it wasn't a cloud. Frankly, if a small, isolated, discrete and substantial cloud in the foreground were not moving along with the all the fluffy background clouds in the distance, I'd be quite alarmed, UFO or no.But I'm still not sure what it was doing that ruled-out a lighter-than-air craft. As I said, just because he couldn't identify it doesn't mean there was anything unexplainable about it. It was behaving well within parameters of an extremely plausible explanation. I haven't heard anything that contra-indicates that.

I think I've met the criteria for explaining the sighting satisfactorily, based on the details provided; I now put the onus on the accounter (i.e. baywax) to refute the explanation.

Anyway, this is getting nowhere.

Agreed. You had to be there.

So far, in answer to the thread's question, if extraterrestrial life has visited Earth it was viruses or other microbes that started life here and possibly continue to "visit" us today.

Origin of organic molecules
There are two possible sources of organic molecules on the early Earth:
1.Terrestrial origins - organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light or electrical discharges) (eg.Miller's experiments)

2.Extraterrestrial origins - delivery by objects (eg carbonaceous chondrites) or gravitational attraction of organic molecules or primitive life-forms from space
Recently estimates of these sources suggest that the heavy bombardment before 3.5 Gyr ago within the early atmosphere made available quantities of organics comparable to those produced by other energy sources.[26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

 

[billiards]

I'd say: it depends how you look at it: are we aliens?

If so: I'd say: yes!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Just a reminder. If you wish to address the subject of UFOs, please spend some time reviewing the UFO Napster, first.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=2805

We all know that there is plenty of nonsense out there, but there are also some very striking and well documented reports that completely dispel the notion that this is all based on claims easily explained.

Kasse, I wouldn't claim that ET is here, but I understand why so many people do. If I had seen what some people apparently did, I would likely agree with their conclusion that we have been visited by either ETs, or time travelers, or something that is clearly beyond our understanding.

 

[DaveC426913]

Just a reminder. If you wish to address the subject of UFOs, please spend some time reviewing the UFO Napster, first.

Forgive me, I keep hearing this word Napster. The only context I have for this word involves downloading of music files, which seems to have nothing to do with the context I'm seeing it used for presently. Am I a dinosaur?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I guess the idea is that we have a list of posted files intended for public viewing. The expression was already in use in the physics forum when Sting started the UFO Napster, at my request.

 

[baywax]

I guess the idea is that we have a list of posted files intended for public viewing. The expression was already in use in the physics forum when Sting started the UFO Napster, at my request.

I've been through the UFO napster. Its all very puzzling. The bold move by whatever they are when they flew over the Capital Dome in Washington DC strikes me as too contrived and overt to be the act of some camera shy aliens.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I've been through the UFO napster.

I would guess that at least 90% of the most popular debunking arguments can be dismissed after reading the information linked in the first page of the Napster.

Skepticism is a good thing. And even after so many years of interest, I wouldn't bet the farm that ET is here; for one, because I have never seen an alien spacecraft . But many so called debunkers are really just crackpots. And what is really sad is that the scientific community has generally embraced their nonsense arguments because of ignorance of the subject.

Shermer is a good example. The more one learns about UFOs, the less credibility Shermer has on the subject; and by default, the less credibility he has on any subject that doesn't have clear boundaries.

 

[baywax]

And even after so many years of interest, I wouldn't bet the farm that ET is here; for one, because I have never seen an alien spacecraft .

For me to see a Harrier doing a vertical landing is like seeing an alien craft. Our Coast Guard's big hovercraft is another anomaly as far as I'm concerned. I've seen other objects, as I've explained, and although they have an effect on the psych as being "other worldly" they have not convinced me that they are from another galaxy or whatever.

What is more convincing to me is the documentation found on the UFO Napster of the Foo-Fighter experiments that were taking place throughout WW2 and before. This kind of initiative does not just evaporate and blow away and my impression is that it's continued development is what has stirred the present controversy concerning UFOs.

 

[kasse]

I'd say: it depends how you look at it: are we aliens?

If so: I'd say: yes!

Thats off topic.

 

[kasse]

Kasse, I wouldn't claim that ET is here, but I understand why so many people do.

Yes, but that doesn't make it rational. I also understand why people are religious, nazis etc. People want to feel being part of something bigger.

When it comes to UFOs (i.e. flying saucers), I think believing in this is even lower than religion, because - unlike religion - it's not something that's been imposed in your childhood, but a really bad decision you've made on your own based on no evidence.

 

[WaveJumper]

Yes, but that doesn't make it rational. I also understand why people are religious, nazis etc. People want to feel being part of something bigger.

When it comes to UFOs (i.e. flying saucers), I think believing in this is even lower than religion, because - unlike religion - it's not something that's been imposed in your childhood, but a really bad decision you've made on your own based on no evidence.

You contradict yourself - you use the term unidentified flying object, then you say this unidentified object didn't exist.