Is there life in the universe, and if so has it visited Earth?

[kpax]

I think the bulk of unexplained sightings can be attributed to classified military aircraft. The SR-71, which still holds aviation records for speed and altitude (wink), was developed from a design proposed in 1959! The F-117 "Hopeless Diamond" design was proposed in 1975! That begs the question, what have the boys at Groom Lake come up with during the past 30 years? My guess is something radical. They don't call it "Dreamland" for nothing.

 

[baywax]

I think the bulk of unexplained sightings can be attributed to classified military aircraft. The SR-71, which still holds aviation records for speed and altitude (wink), was developed from a design proposed in 1959! The F-117 "Hopeless Diamond" design was proposed in 1975! That begs the question, what have the boys at Groom Lake come up with during the past 30 years? My guess is something radical. They don't call it "Dreamland" for nothing.

If they're genetically engineering humans so they fit in their aircraft... that would explain a number of claims.

 

[jreelawg]

What I have noticed is that there are plenty of crackpot believers and plenty of crackpot skeptics.

 

[jhooper3581]

That would suck if one of those aliens just come to this Earth one day and steal our paper copies of grand theories of physics.

 

[BigFairy]

It would be worse if they actually wrote the bible... lool

 

[baywax]

It would be worse if they actually wrote the bible... lool

They're genetically engineered to look like books. That was the beginning of the end of humanity.

 

[kpax]

If they're genetically engineering humans so they fit in their aircraft... that would explain a number of claims.

They're genetically engineered to look like books. That was the beginning of the end of humanity.

Wait. You may be onto something here. lol

 

[Bob_for_short]

I do not know. I have no idea.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I do not know. I have no idea.

Great answers.

It is sad and disappointing that we don't get more answers like yours.

 

[Bob_for_short]

Great answers.

The poll should contain this option too but it does not.

 

[jreelawg]

Do Reptilians count, if they've always been here but come from other dimensions?

 

[qraal]

Do Reptilians count, if they've always been here but come from other dimensions?

No. They're evolved Saurians from a parallel Earth. They're not 'aliens'.

 

[Lamented_Soul]

I do believe that "Aliens" have visited earth. There are Architectual Wonders that absolutely cannot be explained logically. I believe in the Ancient Astronaut Theory. But then again, the evidence for anything can be interpreted a lot of different ways. Idk, I do believe that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. But, the Parameters for sustaining life do not have to be consistent throughout our entire Universe. It is possible that life could exist in an environment that does not suit our requirements for living. The concept that life has to exist the same way everywhere in the entire plane of existence itself, is extremely conservative.

 

[DaveC426913]

I do believe that "Aliens" have visited earth. There are Architectual Wonders that absolutely cannot be explained logically.

Such as?

I believe in the Ancient Astronaut Theory. But then again, the evidence for anything can be interpreted a lot of different ways.

True. This is where Occam's Razor comes in. The answer that introduces the fewest new entities is probably the likeliest.

Another platitude: if you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras.

But, the Parameters for sustaining life do not have to be consistent throughout our entire Universe. It is possible that life could exist in an environment that does not suit our requirements for living. The concept that life has to exist the same way everywhere in the entire plane of existence itself, is extremely conservative.

How does this illuminate the question though? Who is claiming aliens have to be just like us?

 

[mikelepore]

This is where Occam's Razor comes in. The answer that introduces the fewest new entities is probably the likeliest.

Is this really what Occam's Razor says? I thought it makes no claim about what is likely true. There's no reason to use an explanation that contains unnecessary entities. If additional entities don't add predictive power, there's no reason to include them. Whatever may be true is another story.

 

[Lamented_Soul]

How does this illuminate the question though? Who is claiming aliens have to be just like us?

The Statistics used to state the probability of intelligent life elsewhere are based on what we know about life here on earth. Basically, science (Generalization of it, anyways.) deems life in conditions different than our own, impossible, until a discovery that proves otherwise is made. So, what I'm saying is that if you were to tell a biologist that complex, intelligent life could exist on a planet with a carbon monoxide based atmophere, he/she would tell you that you're wrong. But, you're right. It really has nothing to do with the question. Forgive me, I tend to rant. Lol.

 

[qraal]

I do believe that "Aliens" have visited earth. There are Architectual Wonders that absolutely cannot be explained logically. I believe in the Ancient Astronaut Theory. But then again, the evidence for anything can be interpreted a lot of different ways.

I'm yet to see a credible case for Ancient Astronauts being involved in ancient architecture. Anything in particular that strikes you as so glaringly anomalous?

Idk, I do believe that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. But, the Parameters for sustaining life do not have to be consistent throughout our entire Universe. It is possible that life could exist in an environment that does not suit our requirements for living. The concept that life has to exist the same way everywhere in the entire plane of existence itself, is extremely conservative.

I'm not sure anyone is so naive as to think Life can only be based on RNA-DNA, but many feel that RNA-DNA style genetics is an inexorable end-point of biochemical evolution. I'm not sure I agree, but water-based ecosystems will very probably be very prevalent - oxygen and hydrogen are too common for them not to be. However there might be life on planets with more carbon than oxygen, so there might be worlds with oceans of liquid carbon dioxide or crude oil for example. Alternatively there might be seas of two different liquids - water on top and carbon dioxide below. Or more exotic mixes.

 

[DaveC426913]

Basically, science (Generalization of it, anyways.) deems life in conditions different than our own, impossible, until a discovery that proves otherwise is made.

Impossible within science life as we know it.

So, what I'm saying is that if you were to tell a biologist that complex, intelligent life could exist on a planet with a carbon monoxide based atmophere, he/she wsould tell you that you're wrong.

No they wouldn't. They would say "life as we know it". They would then make clear that any further discussion about other types of lifes would be completely speculative.


The "life as we know it" is pretty much the default premise, since most scientists spend their days dealing with what is not with what might be.

But that does not mean it's a unilateral state for all scientists all the time. Just grant the scientist the freedom to speculate.

 

[baywax]

Impossible within science life as we know it.

No they wouldn't. They would say "life as we know it". They would then make clear that any further discussion about other types of lifes would be completely speculative.The "life as we know it" is pretty much the default premise, since most scientists spend their days dealing with what is not with what might be.

But that does not mean it's a unilateral state for all scientists all the time. Just grant the scientist the freedom to speculate.

So far the idea that "there (is )life in the universe and if so it (has) visited earth" is purely speculation. I'm not sure about the disciplines involved but, I'm sure the speculation came about on lunch or over beer and the science it takes to prove such a claim takes place on summer holidays and around Thanksgiving... with the acceptation of the work at SETI.

I guess its healthy to speculate since it leads to studies that would otherwise never be studied. What do you think?

 

[mikelepore]

I do believe that "Aliens" have visited earth. There are Architectual Wonders that absolutely cannot be explained logically. I believe in the Ancient Astronaut Theory.

I think it would be even more illogical if some beings who are so advanced technologically that they have interstellar travel were to come here, and they want to give humans the benefit of advanced construction methods, and then the only construction method they teach them is how to assemble piles of stone blocks.

 

[Count Iblis]

I think intelligent lifeforms will last only for a short period in a biological form. Organisms with a large enough brain to develop a civilization will very soon develop intelligent machines. These machines will then take over control of the planet.

 

[DaveC426913]

I think intelligent lifeforms will last only for a short period in a biological form. Organisms with a large enough brain to develop a civilization will very soon develop intelligent machines. These machines will then take over control of the planet.

Why would these beings with giant brains build machines that would turn on them? That seems dumb.

 

[Pattonias]

My Iphone has been looking at me kind of strange lately.

 

[qraal]

Why would these beings with giant brains build machines that would turn on them? That seems dumb.

The machines don't have to do that. Instead they just do everything better and humans reap the benefits and otherwise. Eventually - with infinite patience, they'll take the long view - the machines will remain and humans will be either extinct or merge with the machines. As large mammals our tenure is tenuous at best.

Personally I think merger is more likely than either side becoming extinct.

 

[DanP]

Why would these beings with giant brains build machines that would turn on them? That seems dumb.

Aint it obvious ? Beings with giant brains are dumb.

 

[Proton Soup]

Aint it obvious ? Beings with giant brains are dumb.

it's also simply not the way things are done. trust me, i used to do test engineering. in general, something gets designed, and then if it's military, you spend the next 20 or more years working the kinks out. otherwise, the lifecycle probably is shorter.

there are no perfect designs out there. something will go wrong. you just hope it was something you had the foresight to limit the extent of its damage.

 

[baywax]

The machines don't have to do that. Instead they just do everything better and humans reap the benefits and otherwise. Eventually - with infinite patience, they'll take the long view - the machines will remain and humans will be either extinct or merge with the machines. As large mammals our tenure is tenuous at best.

Personally I think merger is more likely than either side becoming extinct.

You're on to it. Knowing machines they would remove the weakness of the human calculator and replace us with one of their own kind. Nothing personal or demonic about it. Just plain efficiency... like mother nature. However, something would be lacking and this inefficiency would be the downfall of machines. Then we'd see the rise of the arachnids... or something like that. I think the missing ingredient with machines would be "nurturing qualities".

 

[DaveC426913]

Interstellar travel is quite possible even with 50s technology. Idea came from some Polish physicist, maths was done by Brits, and Jenkiees went on to make proof-of-concept prototypes. It was called Project Pluto or Neptune, or something like that, there is info on Wikipedia and videos on YouTube. Search on 'nuclear propulsion'.

A study and some conceptual designs does not a technology make.

Roswell accident air base press officer died couple of years ago and he left affidavit with his lawyer, stating that it was UFO. In that UK airbase incident, half a dozen officers were standing within 10m from the craft taking pictures and making notes. And if that is not enough, there are similar reports in a USSR-KGB archives.

And yet, still no hard evidence. Where are those pics? Have you seen them?

 

[Pattonias]

Wouldn't anything seen flying through the air that is of unknown origin qualify as a UFO, of Earth or otherwise? I think the term UFO is way overused in this regard. If you see something flying overhead and you don't know what it is, then it is a UFO.

 

[DaveC426913]

Wouldn't anything seen flying through the air that is of unknown origin qualify as a UFO, of Earth or otherwise? I think the term UFO is way overused in this regard. If you see something flying overhead and you don't know what it is, then it is a UFO.

You are correct. When DROBNJAK says 'UFO' he really means 'of extraterrestrial origin'.

 

[Pattonias]

I would actually argue that a government discovering that an alien race existed with absolute proof, would jump at the chance to prove of this existence. It would severely reduce the pressure on there own policies if you had people all concentrating on an other than Earth foreign policy. Also, if there existed a race of superior technology that we knew nothing about, we would have to research and drive forward our defense technology in order to insure the national/world security.

 

[DaveC426913]

What makes technology is money. Was there money available for interstellar travel? ... NO. Was the technology plausible, relative to our knowledge and available materials? ... YES

"Plausible", sure. So what? That's not at all the same thing as available.

We are closer to fusion today than nuclear propulsion in the 50s, yet fusion is still 50 years in our future.

Even if another saucer crashed tomorrow anywhere in G7 world, any remains would instantly be removed from public view. Any government worth its salt would do that, since it is just too big can of worms to handle. We are just left to entertain our minds with speculation.

This lends no shred of veracity to whether it has happened.

Aliens arriving from another galaxy would drop their star drive in the sun so we don't get it, but that doesn't mean that not finding a star drive is evidence that there was one.

Do you know of any evidence?

We are just left to entertain our minds with speculation.

Yes, we are.

For me personally, statements of credible witnesses (on duty pilots, policemen, soldiers etc.) under oath, are enough.

So it would seem, yes.

 

[DaveC426913]

Obviously we can only speculate, but even for aliens it would be extremely expensive to colonize Earth, taking in accounts the energies required to traverse the distances involved. The most likely scenario would be that they are using us either for scientific research or simply visiting us as tourists. Kind of watching us in our own zoo. In the way we send scientist to watch tribes in Amazonian jungle.

Lets, just for argument's sake, look at the original question of this thread from a slightly different angle:

If, for the sake of the example, there was semi-intelligent life on the Mars, and we were 'intelligent aliens', what would be the rules of engagement for our astronauts?

This is what my guess would be:

1) avoid physical contact, in order to prevent transfer of unknown diseases,
2) avoid any situation in which your ship can be damaged,
3) avoid any situation which would prevent the rest of the crew extracting you,
4) keep on sending data home, taking pictures etc.
5) do not disturb them, avoid densely populated areas,

Now back to Earth: is this how, supposed UFOs, are really behaving? Indeed, if they exist, they do behave in a similar fashion.

Yes, The above is obvious. It is nothing that hasn't been stated a zillion times before.


But I could make the identical argument about God.

If God were to create a race of subjects that he wanted to experiment with, how would be go about it?

I now list a bunch of things where I presume to guess both the motives and the means of a totally hypothetical and alien entity. Then I propose how they would manifest themselves - and astonishingly - my ideas how of they manifest themselves is identical to the observations I've gathered. (Let's ignore the fact that my obsevations came before my theory, so no prediction going on here, only hindsight.)

Who would have thunk such a strong correlation? And since you cannot prove a negative, my theory cannot be falsified. It's perfect.

Of course, it's not science, it's religion.

 

[DaveC426913]

A big difference between the God and aliens is that God would need to be older than universe, while aliens are simply "us" only evolved somewhere else.

Not true. I didn't say that God or this particular God was older than the universe. Since it is a hypothetical (and arguably fictional) entity, I can ascribe it any properties I wish, just like you did for your aliens. You are making the properties of your aliens match the scenario you have (such as having interstellar travel), thus, so will I.

It changes nothing about your argument. Saying how unicorns "would" have hidden from us and shown up in legends doesn't make unicorns any more real or plausible. Likewise, pointing out that unicorns don't need interstellar propulsion doesn't make them more plausible than aliens.

 

[DanP]

It changes nothing about your argument. Saying how unicorns "would" have hidden from us and shown up in legends doesn't make unicorns any more real or plausible. Likewise, pointing out that unicorns don't need interstellar propulsion doesn't make them more plausible than aliens.

I agree. Unicorns are no more. Unicorns became extinct since there are virtually no virgins over the age of 16 left in this galaxy, to ride them, feed them and care for them. They perished of sadness and famine.