Lagrangian, particle/magnetic need solution check

  • Thread starter AbigailM
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Lagrangian
In summary, the conversation was about finding the correct Lagrangian for a particle with mass m and charge q moving in a uniform magnetic field. The correct equation of motion was given, and the conversation focused on choosing the correct potential for the Lagrangian. Ultimately, the correct Lagrangian was determined to be L=\frac{1}{2}mv^{2} + q\boldsymbol{v.A}. However, it was noted that the justification for this choice was not fully explained and further calculations were needed to show that it is a correct choice.
  • #1
AbigailM
46
0
Preparing for classical prelim, just wondering if this solution is correct.

Homework Statement


A particle with mass m and charge q moves in a uniform magnetic field [itex]\boldsymbol{B}=B\boldsymbol{\hat{z}}[/itex]. Write a Lagrangian describing the motion of the particle in the xy plane that gives the correct Lorentz-force equation of motion,
[itex]m\mathbf{a}=q\mathbf{v}\times\mathbf{B}[/itex]

Homework Equations


L=T - U

[itex]\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}\right)=\frac{\partial L}{\partial q}[/itex]

[itex]\boldsymbol{B}=\boldsymbol{\nabla \times A}[/itex]

[itex]\boldsymbol{E}=-\boldsymbol{\nabla}\phi +\frac{\partial \boldsymbol{A}}{\partial t}[/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution


I'm going to start with the complete lorentz force and remove the electric potential from the lagrangian later.

[itex]\mathbf{F}=q(\mathbf{E}+\mathbf{v}\times\mathbf{B})[/itex]

[itex]\mathbf{F}=q(\mathbf{E}+\mathbf{v}\times (\boldsymbol{\nabla \times A}))[/itex]

[itex]\mathbf{F}=q(\mathbf{E}+\boldsymbol{\nabla} (\mathbf{v.A})-\boldsymbol{A}(\boldsymbol{\nabla . v}))[/itex]

[itex]\mathbf{F}=q(-\boldsymbol{\nabla}\phi+\frac{\partial\boldsymbol{A}}{\partial t}+\boldsymbol{\nabla}(\boldsymbol{v.A})-\boldsymbol{A}(\boldsymbol{\nabla v}))[/itex]

[itex]U=q(\phi -\boldsymbol{v.A})=q\phi-q\boldsymbol{v.A}[/itex]

We are only interested in the magnetic field so we'll ignore [itex]q\phi[/itex].

[itex]U=q\boldsymbol{v.A}[/itex]

[itex]L=\frac{1}{2}mv^{2} + q\boldsymbol{v.A} \hspace{2 mm}\mathbf{:Answer}[/itex]

As always thanks for the help!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
AbigailM said:
[itex]\mathbf{F}=q(\mathbf{E}+\mathbf{v}\times (\boldsymbol{\nabla \times A}))[/itex]

[itex]\mathbf{F}=q(\mathbf{E}+\boldsymbol{\nabla} (\mathbf{v.A})-\boldsymbol{A}(\boldsymbol{\nabla . v}))[/itex]

This is correct, but you should explain how you got it (i.e that you used a specific vector product rule and that 2 of the terms were zero and why) on your exam if you want full marks.

[itex]\mathbf{F}=q(-\boldsymbol{\nabla}\phi+\frac{\partial\boldsymbol{A}}{\partial t}+\boldsymbol{\nabla}(\boldsymbol{v.A})-\boldsymbol{A}(\boldsymbol{\nabla v}))[/itex]

[itex]U=q(\phi -\boldsymbol{v.A})=q\phi-q\boldsymbol{v.A}[/itex]

Your choice of generalized potential is not immediately obvious when looking at this. How did you choose [itex]U[/itex] from this when there are 2 other terms present that depend on your generalized coordinates, momenta and time? There is a step missing in between which will make the choice of [itex]U[/itex] much easier to argue.

[itex]L=\frac{1}{2}mv^{2} + q\boldsymbol{v.A} \hspace{2 mm}\mathbf{:Answer}[/itex]

As always thanks for the help!

Did you actually show that this choice of Lagrangian gives the correct force law?

I only see an incomplete motivation for choosing such a Lagrangian, and no calculations to show that it is indeed a correct choice.
 

1. What is Lagrangian?

Lagrangian is a mathematical formalism used in classical mechanics to describe the motion of systems of particles. It is based on the principle of least action, where the path a system takes between two points is the one that minimizes the total action.

2. What is the difference between Lagrangian and Eulerian approaches?

In the Lagrangian approach, the motion of individual particles is described, while in the Eulerian approach, the focus is on the motion of a fluid at a fixed point in space. Lagrangian approaches are useful for analyzing systems with a small number of particles, while Eulerian approaches are better for systems with a large number of particles.

3. What is the particle/magnetic need solution check?

The particle/magnetic need solution check is a method used in computational fluid dynamics to ensure that the numerical solution of the governing equations is accurate. It involves checking the continuity and momentum equations, as well as the magnetic field equations, to ensure that they are satisfied within a specified tolerance.

4. How is the Lagrangian approach used in fluid dynamics?

In fluid dynamics, the Lagrangian approach is used to track the motion of individual particles in a fluid. This is particularly useful for studying turbulent flows, where the motion of individual particles can help understand the overall behavior of the fluid.

5. What is the importance of the Lagrangian approach in magnetohydrodynamics?

The Lagrangian approach is important in magnetohydrodynamics because it allows for the study of the interactions between a fluid and a magnetic field. This is particularly useful in applications such as plasma physics and astrophysics, where magnetic fields play a significant role in the dynamics of the system.

Similar threads

  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
864
  • Differential Equations
Replies
0
Views
125
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
919
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
Back
Top