Lead in Vinegar: California Warning for Balsamic Products

[Math Is Hard]

I was just about to spoon some vinagrette onto my salad today when I see this big warning from the State of California that balsamic vinegar products contain lead. How the heck is lead getting into my salad dressing? This is the first time I've ever seen this. Are other U.S. states putting out this warning?

 

[turbo]

The deal is Prop 65. Lead can get into grapes from the soil in which they are grown, and the grape juice is concentrated to make vinegar. It is unlikely that there is enough lead in the vinegar to harm you. You can buy a lead test kit to verify that, though.

 

[Evo]

Is there going to be anything left that Californian's can eat?

Anthony Bourdain was asked why he could travel the world eating in what Americans consider filthy conditions and not get sick. He said he believed part of it was due to the fact that he didn't grow up in a sterile bubble.

 

[Math Is Hard]

The deal is Prop 65. Lead can get into grapes from the soil in which they are grown, and the grape juice is concentrated to make vinegar. It is unlikely that there is enough lead in the vinegar to harm you. You can buy a lead test kit to verify that, though.

Thanks, turbo.

Is there going to be anything left that Californian's can eat?

Tell me about it! I'm going to starve out here.

I found an article about a lawsuit that seems to have started this:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/25/MNGIK57OJ11.DTL

It seems that an environmental group thinks the lead gets in during the manufacturing

The suit, filed by the Environmental Law Foundation of Oakland, says lead can contaminate wine vinegar in the manufacturing process, and that the highest concentrations are found in Modena-style balsamic vinegar, a dark, rich vinegar favored by gourmet cooks.

but others say the lead is just coming through the soil, as turbo described.

Michele Corash, an attorney with Morrison and Foerster in San Francisco who represents the wine vinegar manufacturers and importers in the suit, said Tuesday that lead occurs naturally in the soil, is taken up by the grapes used to make the wine vinegar and, therefore, is not regulated by Prop. 65. She said lead levels are not affected by the manufacturing process.

 

[Moonbear]

Apparently, living in CA causes cancer, which is why they have to have those signs on EVERYTHING there. Move back east, MIH. We aren't afraid of our food over on this side of the country.

 

[turbo]

My acidic apples, berries, tomatoes and Concord grapes are probably slurping up mercury, lead and cadmium from the soil, but I'm going to keep eating them. They taste great.

I guess simmering my tomatoes all day to make my from-scratch pizza sauce would cause the heavy metals to concentrate. Sorry California! No gourmet pizza sauce for you.

 

[Evo]

How absurd can you get? Someone needs to sue these people for stupid lawsuits that end up raising our costs for food.

The Environmental Law Foundation said it spent $50,000 having vinegars tested for lead by a UC Santa Cruz laboratory. Lawyers determined the exposure levels by considering the U.S. Department of Agriculture's data on consumption of vinegar and applying the lead concentrations found in the products.

The foundation said it is suing the businesses based on an exposure level of more than 0.5 micrograms per day, a level set by Prop. 65 that includes a 1, 000-fold safety margin. In other words, that level is 1,000 times lower than the level that would cause an observable effect in animals.

:uhh:

Did they test the soil where the grapes are grown? No.

Did it occur to them that as a bunch of "environmentalist lawyers" that they aren't qualified to understand test results or what would be valid tests to determine where trace minerals come from? No.

They automatically assumed since different batches grown in different areas show different amounts of trace minerals that it's "because of manufacturing", yeah that would have been my first guess.

I'm wondering if they even know what balsamic vinegar is. Some "balsamic" vinegar on the market is mostly wine vinegar with caramel coloring added.

 

[LowlyPion]

A general study found:
"Lead concentrations of 59 different types of vinegars (15–307 μg l−1 in balsamic vinegars and 36–50 μg l−1 in wine vinegars) were determined using both inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry (ICP-MS) and graphite furnace atomic absorption spectrometry (GFAAS)."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THP-4C629WF-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=bd97b96f1a7a7f8be8e4be781bbdb2a6

I think 15 μg/L is the FDA standard for water. That looks like a lot of balsamic use before any problems with standards. I have a couple of bottles of balsamic, one aged and thicker, the other lighter for tossed salads. I've had them several years. The aged and thicker is also richer (and more expensive) and I tend to use it less. Even presuming that the high end - the 300μg/L number is representative of thicker aged balsamic - 8 oz. spaced out over a couple of years of use compared to water consumption - it must be trivial. What are they thinking?

And it's not like kids go out of their way to consume much of it either.

 

[turbo]

I'm wondering if they even know what balsamic vinegar is. Some "balsamic" vinegar on the market is mostly wine vinegar with caramel coloring added.

Real balsamic vinegar that has been concentrated and transferred multiple times before bottling is hideously expensive, which is why people buy the fake stuff. I can't stand the fake stuff and can't afford the high-quality stuff, though I have enjoyed it at high-end restaurants when entertaining customers on my expense accounts.

 

[Evo]

Real balsamic vinegar that has been concentrated and transferred multiple times before bottling is hideously expensive, which is why people buy the fake stuff. I can't stand the fake stuff and can't afford the high-quality stuff, though I have enjoyed it at high-end restaurants when entertaining customers on my expense accounts.

I've only seen "real" balsamic vinegar at one trendy import store and it was a tiny bottle locked in a glass case. The prices range from hundreds to thousands of dollars. Nothing you buy at the grocery store is the "real" deal.

 

[binzing]

Is there going to be anything left that Californian's can eat?

Anthony Bourdain was asked why he could travel the world eating in what Americans consider filthy conditions and not get sick. He said he believed part of it was due to the fact that he didn't grow up in a sterile bubble.

I love his show

 

[Evo]

I love his show

He has a new show tonight.

 

[Moonbear]

How absurd can you get? Someone needs to sue these people for stupid lawsuits that end up raising our costs for food.

:uhh:

Did they test the soil where the grapes are grown? No.

Did it occur to them that as a bunch of "environmentalist lawyers" that they aren't qualified to understand test results or what would be valid tests to determine where trace minerals come from? No.

They automatically assumed since different batches grown in different areas show different amounts of trace minerals that it's "because of manufacturing", yeah that would have been my first guess.

I'm wondering if they even know what balsamic vinegar is. Some "balsamic" vinegar on the market is mostly wine vinegar with caramel coloring added.

I'd also be willing to guess that USDA's "consumption" data are usage of all forms of vinegar for any purpose, not just eating it, since they track agriculatural commodity markets. So, if you use a gallon of vinegar to make window cleaner, USDA probably doesn't distinguish that from a gallon of vinegar for making pickles, neither of which results in a person eating a gallon of vinegar, and doesn't distinguish that from all the vinegar you put in salad dressings.

 

[Moonbear]

I've only seen "real" balsamic vinegar at one trendy import store and it was a tiny bottle locked in a glass case. The prices range from hundreds to thousands of dollars. Nothing you buy at the grocery store is the "real" deal.

It's real, just not aged as long, so not a good quality. I still like using the cheap stuff for marinades, where you wouldn't want to use expensive balsamic vinegar. I also have the little bottle of stuff aged 10 years, which is incredibly sweet tasting. That only gets used for dipping bread with olive oil...I'd never waste it in something where it would be diluted to the point you couldn't enjoy the taste.

 

[mgb_phys]

You think that's crazy - we can't use a whole family of optical glass because it contains lead (vitrified in the glass !) or chips that contains a few ug of lead in the internal solder.
But we can't ship Li-Ion batteries as reguar air freight so we had to go back to using lead acid.
So a few mg of lead safely encapsulated in glass = bad,
several kg of lead as nice soluble lead sulphate = safe.

 

[LowlyPion]

The attitudes about lead consumption have certainly changed through the years.

Lead acetate used as a sweetner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate#Historical_use

Would you like some wine with that gout?

 

[edward]

We import a lot of grape juice concentrate from Argentina

REASON FOR
ALERT: SAN-DO analyzed a shipment of grape juice concentrate and found
elevated levels of lead. The average level of lead found in the
concentrate was of 0.076mg/l. The calculated exposure to lead from
a single 8 oz. serving prepared from this concentrate would be more
than three times the Provisional Total Tolerable Intake of Lead for
children. As a result of these findings, CFSAN supported a seizure
of the shipment based on the excessive levels of lead.

http://www.fda.gov/ora/fiars/ora_import_ia2005.html

The link above is from 2002. The link below is from 2004.

California growers can't keep up with the demand for concentrate.

http://cati.csufresno.edu/cab/PDF/GrapeJuiceReport.pdf

Please don't tell me it is China again. Why can't we just poison ourselves.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I've only seen "real" balsamic vinegar at one trendy import store and it was a tiny bottle locked in a glass case. The prices range from hundreds to thousands of dollars. Nothing you buy at the grocery store is the "real" deal.

I want to try the real stuff! I've never had real balsamic vinegar.

 

[maze]

Anthony Bourdain was asked why he could travel the world eating in what Americans consider filthy conditions and not get sick. He said he believed part of it was due to the fact that he didn't grow up in a sterile bubble.

I'm going to laugh hard 20 years from now when he gets nerve damage from long term lead exposure.

 

[Moonbear]

I want to try the real stuff! I've never had real balsamic vinegar.

The longer it's aged, the more thick and syrupy it gets, and much mellower and sweeter. I can't afford anything older than the 10 year aged one though...that was already pricey enough! The store I bought it from also had a glass case with the really good stuff locked up.

 

[Math Is Hard]

The longer it's aged, the more thick and syrupy it gets, and much mellower and sweeter. I can't afford anything older than the 10 year aged one though...that was already pricey enough! The store I bought it from also had a glass case with the really good stuff locked up.

Maybe I shouldn't try it. Maybe I'd like it too much. It could be the gateway to really expensive tastes.

It might start innocently enough, just pawning a few things for my next balsamic fix, but then before you know it the sisters are bailing me out of jail for stealing truffles and caviar.

 

[Moonbear]

Maybe I shouldn't try it. Maybe I'd like it too much. It could be the gateway to really expensive tastes.

It might start innocently enough, just pawning a few things for my next balsamic fix, but then before you know it the sisters are bailing me out of jail for stealing truffles and caviar.

Yes, it's dangerous to try the good stuff. I would have never considered buying a bottle of vinegar that expensive before, but then of course my colleague who is really into gourmet cooking HAD to break out a bottle of it to make a salad dressing at a dinner party, and hooked me. It's highly addictive...one taste and you crave more. On the plus side, the more expensive and concentrated it is, the less you need to use of it. A few drops go a long way for flavoring.

 

[turbo]

The longer it's aged, the more thick and syrupy it gets, and much mellower and sweeter. I can't afford anything older than the 10 year aged one though...that was already pricey enough! The store I bought it from also had a glass case with the really good stuff locked up.

Even the 10 year stuff was over $40 for a small bottle (maybe 100-150ml ) quite a few years ago. They were selling the stuff with little glass droppers like expensive French perfume.

 

[Moonbear]

Even the 10 year stuff was over $40 for a small bottle (maybe 100-150ml ) quite a few years ago. They were selling the stuff with little glass droppers like expensive French perfume.

Ooh, then the expensive gourmet store was actually a bargain for a change. 8.45 oz (about 250 ml?) for $35 (I kept the price sticker on it so I don't forget how expensive it is and get carried away using too much of it at a time). But I think the 12 yr old one was closer to $50. The rest were locked in the glass case...I'd be too afraid I'd drop the bottle if I dared to get any of those! I'd probably want to wrap it in triple layers of bubble wrap and put a mattress over the tile floor before I took it out of the cabinet.

 

[turbo]

Ooh, then the expensive gourmet store was actually a bargain for a change. 8.45 oz (about 250 ml?) for $35

That sounds like quite a deal, compared to the stuff that I was looking at. I had never liked the cheap supermarket stuff, but was convinced to try balsamic vinegar by an enthusiastic wine-steward who intervened when he overheard me decline the suggestion of our waiter (fancy restaurant) to order a salad with fruits, greens, and vegetables with balsamic vinegar. The wine expert assured me that the salad was outstanding, and he was right. Then I tried to buy some of the good stuff in a high-end cooking store, and figured out real quick that quality was $$$$$$. Tiny bottles, big prices.

 

[Evo]

It's not really Balsamic unless it is one of the two below. They only come in 12, 18 and 25+ years.

Only two consortia produce true traditional balsamic vinegar, Modena and Reggio Emilia. Reggio Emila (Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale di Reggio Emilia) designates the different ages of their balsamic vinegar by label colour. A red label means the vinegar has been aged for at least 12 years, a silver label that the vinegar has aged for at least 18 years and a gold label that designates the vinegar has aged for 25 years or more[1].

Modena (Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale di Modena) uses a different system to indicate the age of their balsamic vinegars. A white cup means the vinegar has aged for at least 12 years and a golden cup bearing the designation extravecchio to show the vinegar has aged for 25 years or more[1].

And I guarantee you the smallest bottle starts at over $100.

The rest is not true balsamic vinegar. The "balsamic" vinegar I have is not real balsamic. Most people have never had it as it is fairly scarce. I probably have never had the real thing. I watched a documentary on making it, I never realized just how scarce the real stuff is. What we all have is commercial grade stuff, still good, but I would die to try the real stuff which is thick as honey. I've only seen it used on a tv special.

"Aceto Balsamico di Modena" is not the good stuff, and may not even be from Modena.

In Italy, small caskets of the stuff have been used as dowrys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balsamic_vinegar

 

[turbo]

It's not really Balsamic unless it one of the two below. They only come in 12, 18 and 25+ years.
And I guarantee you the smallest bottle starts at over $100.

The rest is not true balsamic vinegar. The "balsamic" vinegar I have is not real balsamic. Most people have never had it as it is fairly scarce. I probably have never had the real thing. I watched a documentary on making it, I never realized just how scarce the real stuff is. Wjay we all have is commercial grade stuff, still good, but I would die to try the real stuff which is thich as honey. I've only seen it used on a tv special.

In Italy, small caskets of the stuff have been used as dowrys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balsamic_vinegar

The wine steward emphasized the outstanding Modena balsamic vinegar used in the salad. I jotted that down after I was blown away by the salad, and then realized that I could never afford to buy and use the stuff, except a few drops at a time. Game over. BTW, that was a really expensive meal. I could have bought a tiny bottle of the good stuff if I could have hidden it in my expense account. I went to a trendy cooking store in Baltimore and couldn't bear to look at the tags on the Modena. The lower-tier stuff was still WAY expensive for little tiny bottles. Nothing aged 10 years or more for under $40 for a small bottle.

I never imagined that vinegar could be used as a dowry, but I guess if a barrel of wine had been in your family for 50+ years and was concentrated down to a little cask over that time, it could be considered a family treasure.

BTW, where is all the talk of lead? Is it possible that a GD thread has been hijacked by a riff on really expensive vinegar? Naah!

 

[Math Is Hard]

I'm confused about these desserts with Balsamic vinegar from the Wiki page:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/89/Vinegar_desserts.jpg/300px-Vinegar_desserts.jpg

Are they saying they make desserts with vinegar?

 

[Moonbear]

I'm not sure I'd trust wikipedia as the authoritative source on this. "Good" stuff is one thing, but calling it not "real" stuff is another. It's still real, just not aged very long, so not good. The "good" stuff gets the special stamp of approval basically. The 10 year old one is still incredibly tasty. The one my gourmet friend had was much thicker...but he also can afford to spend $100 on a bottle of vinegar. It's really no different than trying to find good olive oils. There are the cheap ones that are just fine for cooking, and then really good ones that you'd want to use only sparingly and can be enjoyed for their own sake (such as for dipping bread).

 

[Moonbear]

I'm confused about these desserts with Balsamic vinegar from the Wiki page:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/89/Vinegar_desserts.jpg/300px-Vinegar_desserts.jpg

Are they saying they make desserts with vinegar?

You'd need one aged longer than the 10 year one I have for that, but yeah, I could imagine it being done. The aging makes it sweeter. It loses a lot of that sharpness of vinegar. I'd think a better one would even make a good topping for berries.

 

[Math Is Hard]

The attitudes about lead consumption have certainly changed through the years.

Lead acetate used as a sweetner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate#Historical_use

Would you like some wine with that gout?

Didn't people also once use lead in cosmetics?

 

[Evo]

I'm not sure I'd trust wikipedia as the authoritative source on this. "Good" stuff is one thing, but calling it not "real" stuff is another. It's still real, just not aged very long, so not good. The "good" stuff gets the special stamp of approval basically. The 10 year old one is still incredibly tasty. The one my gourmet friend had was much thicker...but he also can afford to spend $100 on a bottle of vinegar. It's really no different than trying to find good olive oils. There are the cheap ones that are just fine for cooking, and then really good ones that you'd want to use only sparingly and can be enjoyed for their own sake (such as for dipping bread).

Read your label, you will find what you have is not the real thing.

I'm serious I saw the PBS special about it, the real thing looks like mollases, it does not resemble vinegar at all. I've also seen it used on one cooking show where the person was in Italy at one of the few families that have the abiltiy to produce it and they let the cook pour a bit.

Italy is known for the restrictions that they put on foods and wine. There is no 10 year old true balsamic vinegar.

If you don't believe me, google it.

Here is a good explanation. http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/articles/balsamic-vinegar-famed-elixir.aspx

 

[Math Is Hard]

You'd need one aged longer than the 10 year one I have for that, but yeah, I could imagine it being done. The aging makes it sweeter. It loses a lot of that sharpness of vinegar. I'd think a better one would even make a good topping for berries.

I guess until I've had the real deal, it's hard for me to imagine the sweetness.

 

[Math Is Hard]

You think that's crazy - we can't use a whole family of optical glass because it contains lead (vitrified in the glass !) or chips that contains a few ug of lead in the internal solder.
But we can't ship Li-Ion batteries as reguar air freight so we had to go back to using lead acid.
So a few mg of lead safely encapsulated in glass = bad,
several kg of lead as nice soluble lead sulphate = safe.

Is lead crystal still sold? Are there any restrictions on that?

 

[turbo]

The salad that I had was wonderful, with no hint of acidity. The dressing was sweet and very rich with a flavor that seemed to go well with fruit, vegetables, and (sparse) greens. I was blown away. It was probably balsamic vinegar with some nice cold-pressed olive oil and some subtle herb flavors. Then when I looked at prices for the "good stuff" in the gourmet food store, I was blown away. Sticker shock.

Stay away, MIH! If you get a taste for the real deal, you'll be starting up Nigerian lottery scams to fuel your habit. I'm lucky that I have a real Jones for complex hot stuff to cook with and to use as condiments. I can survive with Heinz Cider Vinegar on my greens and use it to make vinaigrette with cold-pressed olive oil and herbs from our garden and deck. I wouldn't turn down a little bottle of Modena balsamic, but I'm not going to buy it, any more than I would buy 75-year-old single malt Scotch or ancient bottles of Burgundy. If anybody would like to share these with me, I will gladly kick in some of the wildest, hard-*** chili relish and salsas that you have ever experienced, though.

Is the thread derailed sufficiently, Evo, or do we have to haul MIH farther down the garden path?