Little Rant... about essay writing

[Daveyzombie]

So I recently checked online to find out I got a 69% I thought I had a passing grade on because I feel like I put a fair amount of work into it and also went to a tutor for it. My teacher tries to be hard and warns us to write using correct MLA format in our class or else she wouldn't read it, but instead decides to deduct huge chunks of points as if it were "nicely" justified. I strongly feel like I deserve a better grade, I understand that my teacher should expect us to know MLA without much review.

I just don't understand how I am going to need MLA a lot going into a STEM field. Maybe some of you can inspire me to see the light in this situation. I really hate this class and my teacher and finding positivity is quite tough.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Do I understand the complaint correctly? Your teacher asked for the assignment in a given format, you didn't use that format, but nevertheless feel you deserve a good grade? If so, I have a hard time generating much sympathy. And if you think that you won't have writing assignments in STEM that ask you to use a given format, you have another think coming.

 

[symbolipoint]

You will need to tell us what MLA stands for. In any case, your teacher seems to require students to follow some kind of format and following that format is something important for some logical reason; therefore, failing to follow whatever this method or format is lowers your credit for the piece of work. This MLA thing might be a type standard for writing your assigned essays, so that proper credit for your essay depends on following this MLA.

I can only attempt to compare your complaint to other formal, formatting & practices requirements for assignments in courses I myself have had.

• Intro Computer Programming: We had to include table of variables, and flow diagrams; otherwise we received very little credit and our teacher would refuse to answer help-questions about the work. They were a big part of the learning and the teacher was a very busy person.
• Physics-Mechanics: Nearly all work, including homeworks, tests, quizzes, required a format of identifying formulas needed, making figures and diagrams, giving variables to all numbers, writing the necessary equations to describe the problem, solving for the question asked entirely in symbols, and then substituting the given and assigned values to obtain the final numeric answer. If we did not do these things, then we usually received little or no credit; and in case we asked for help, we would get none. The teacher was trying to make sure we took the effort to seriously learn, and he was a very busy person.

Much of this is about (1) Learning to communicate unambiguously, and (2) Following instructions, but is also about (3) learning to do reliable, and dependable work.

 

[Daveyzombie]

Do I understand the complaint correctly? Your teacher asked for the assignment in a given format, you didn't use that format, but nevertheless feel you deserve a good grade? If so, I have a hard time generating much sympathy. And if you think that you won't have writing assignments in STEM that ask you to use a given format, you have another think coming.

Yeah I guess i didn't explain it very well. And yes you would have a hard time generating sympathy, but the issue for me is that most people in my class have issues with format and she kind of knows this but she only refers us to the book or a website instead of going over examples in class. I mean we have ourselves to blame because we the students are taking her class. But knowing I have writing assignments as a STEM major is motivating and was expected, because now I have some motivation to write.

 

[Daveyzombie]

You will need to tell us what MLA stands for. In any case, your teacher seems to require students to follow some kind of format and following that format is something important for some logical reason; therefore, failing to follow whatever this method or format is lowers your credit for the piece of work. This MLA thing might be a type standard for writing your assigned essays, so that proper credit for your essay depends on following this MLA.

I can only attempt to compare your complaint to other formal, formatting & practices requirements for assignments in courses I myself have had.

• Intro Computer Programming: We had to include table of variables, and flow diagrams; otherwise we received very little credit and our teacher would refuse to answer help-questions about the work. They were a big part of the learning and the teacher was a very busy person.
• Physics-Mechanics: Nearly all work, including homeworks, tests, quizzes, required a format of identifying formulas needed, making figures and diagrams, giving variables to all numbers, writing the necessary equations to describe the problem, solving for the question asked entirely in symbols, and then substituting the given and assigned values to obtain the final numeric answer. If we did not do these things, then we usually received little or no credit; and in case we asked for help, we would get none. The teacher was trying to make sure we took the effort to seriously learn, and he was a very busy person.

Much of this is about (1) Learning to communicate unambiguously, and (2) Following instructions, but is also about (3) learning to do reliable, and dependable work.

I long to join these classes haha.. In a couple semesters I will take my first physics course. woop!

 

[Mark44]

You will need to tell us what MLA stands for.

I'm reasonably sure it's Modern Langauge Association.

 

[StevieTNZ]

I'm reasonably sure it's Modern Langauge Association.

You should follow what kind of way your teacher wants you to acknowledge sources. In this case, it is MLA. Most of my assignments I've used APA. If you don't cite your sources, then you could be marked down for (or get summoned to explain) plagiarism.

 

[Choppy]

Sometimes the details of the style aren't the point. If you go far enough in any STEM field, you'll have to start writing up papers and those will have to be in a very specific format. Unfortunately it seems like every journal has its own little idiosyncrasies, and sometimes failing to meet the specified format can be grounds for rejection, or at least cause delays in publication. So the point of such exercises is often to learn about the little formatting details. Whether the journal will require you to write out the names of all authors in the citation, or just the first author, is irrelevant - you learn that formatting author order is important. (And really formats can be coded or "templated" in these days so depending on how you're doing your essay, such things really only need to be figured out once.)

If you honestly feel you deserve a better grade than you received, it might be worth discussing the matter with your professor. He or she will likely be able to offer more insight into specifics of the grading scheme than we can.

 

[russ_watters]

So...you're in college and still using the "I'm never going to use this in the real world" excuse for not doing what the teacher requires of you? Really? Are you going to argue with your first boss about the value of your assignments there too?

 

[Daveyzombie]

The reason why I'm arguing is because there is an argument to be found. My teacher hasn't really helped anyone with the concepts people in the class have issues with.

The concepts aren't the problem. It is the teacher. And yes if I have a terrible boss I would argue with my boss

 

[symbolipoint]

The reason why I'm arguing is because there is an argument to be found. My teacher hasn't really helped anyone with the concepts people in the class have issues with.

The concepts aren't the problem. It is the teacher. And yes if I have a terrible boss I would argue with my boss

You need to check your thoughts or analyses more carefully here. The concepts are the problem, or the concepts are not the problem; if the situation is something inbetween, the explain it clearly. The concepts are or are not the problem, or the essay format is a problem - these are two different things.

There are ways worth arguing with your boss and there are ways you should never argue with your boss. Presenting an intelligent discussion to support what you think to be done may win, and the boss could approve your decision or action. If you are arguing in any form of hostile way, you just make trouble for yourself. At your current phase of development, focus on following directions and asking questions to have a clear understanding, whether for concepts, or handling the MLA outlining practices.

 

[StevieTNZ]

Can you please clarify what MLA is? If it is a way of showing your sources used for an assignment, then I am absolutely puzzled what you are arguing about. Clarification would be helpful.

 

[symbolipoint]

Can you please clarify what MLA is? If it is a way of showing your sources used for an assignment, then I am absolutely puzzled what you are arguing about. Clarification would be helpful.

Post #6. Modern Langauge Association

 

[russ_watters]

The reason why I'm arguing is because there is an argument to be found.

No, there isn't. The teacher sets the assignments and the students do them. The primary thing you accomplish by challenging your teacher over something frivolous like this is to get on the teacher's bad side.

My teacher hasn't really helped anyone with the concepts people in the class have issues with.

Are we still talking about MLA formatting? If your teacher isn't teaching the material well, that's a totally different problem. Based on the OP though it sounds like you did know the material well enough to get a good grade if you'd have presented it well in the report.

And yes if I have a terrible boss I would argue with my boss

That's really stupid. You're going to need to learn how to pick your battles better if you want to be successful.

 

[russ_watters]

Can you please clarify what MLA is? If it is a way of showing your sources used for an assignment, then I am absolutely puzzled what you are arguing about. Clarification would be helpful.

MLA formatting is the standard writing style guidelines used by pretty much all schools/colleges in the US:
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/24/

MLA style specifies guidelines for formatting manuscripts and using the English language in writing. MLA style also provides writers with a system for referencing their sources through parenthetical citation in their essays and Works Cited pages.

Writers who properly use MLA also build their credibility by demonstrating accountability to their source material. Most importantly, the use of MLA style can protect writers from accusations of plagiarism, which is the purposeful or accidental uncredited use of source material by other writers.

Whether one needs this specific format in the "real world" depends on what they are doing, but the exercise in proper formatting is a useful one whether you are using MLA or not.

My first exercise in technical writing was in a college lab course. My classmates and I got crucified over our writing ability and gradually learned to give the professor what he wanted. Fast forward to the real world and the formatting isn't quite the same, but the issue is: my bosses have specific writing formats/styles they want and the proper course of action is to learn and adapt, not try to fight them over it.

 

[StevieTNZ]

MLA formatting is the standard writing style guidelines used by pretty much all schools/colleges in the US:
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/24/

Ah, gotcha. It is more than just spelling out how to reference sources.

 

[berkeman]

Modern Langauge Association

So I read about this at Wikipedia, and looked around the MLA.org website, but wasn't able to easily understand what an "MLA style" would be for writing essays. Can someone provide a link? Thanks.

 

[StevieTNZ]

So I read about this at Wikipedia, and looked around the MLA.org website, but wasn't able to easily understand what an "MLA style" would be for writing essays. Can someone provide a link? Thanks.

Try russ' link - https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/24/

 

[berkeman]

Try russ' link - https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/24/

Oops, I missed that. Thanks!

 

[Daveyzombie]

Seeing that many of you don't really know what MLA formatting is shows how useful the material I'm learning really is.

And the material is the issue for the students, because it isn't really covered in class and only as a reading assignment for this particular semester. Most of the students in my class have a similar problem. I'm not the type of student to really complain about working hard, I'm just upset I have a teacher that doesn't know how to be helpful. I love working hard and feeling accomplished. I have a good GPA and I am getting good grades at the moment and I'm focused. This is my worst class partially because I haven't been exposed to a teacher like my current one before and was unprepared for her lack of experience.

I know my posts haven't been clear and might have sounded contradicting but I was ranting.

 

[berkeman]

Seeing that many of you don't really know what MLA formatting is shows how useful the material I'm learning really is.

False. I think the feedback you are getting is that it is *very* useful to learn how to write in a standard style, and to be open to writing in different standard styles in the future. It's unrealistic to think that you can learn one style and use that all through your working life at different companies and for different venues. But it's very realistic to have to learn how to learn a standard style and use it well, so that you can pick up the next standard style that is required of you at your next employer, or for publishing a paper in a peer-reviewed journal, or for writing computer software code in a standard style, etc.

 

[StevieTNZ]

... I'm just upset I have a teacher that doesn't know how to be helpful.

You need to take that up with your teacher.

 

[russ_watters]

Seeing that many of you don't really know what MLA formatting is shows how useful the material I'm learning really is.

No, that's just an age thing. I'm 40 and MLA format was invented when I was in middle school in 1985. Anyone much older never used it and anyone under 40 should be very familiar with it. Older people used different formats, but they still used specific ones. But the basic problem of kids complaining about teachers being picky about paper formatting and the general annoyance of using them is generations old. My mom used to complain about the PITA of trying to leave enough room at the bottom of a typed paper for footnotes.

And yes, as berkeman said, for the general issue of a paper needing to be properly formatted - regardless of the standard chosen - there's no disagreement here. Indeed, you are arguing against something you really should be in favor of: using MLA format makes it easier for you. It's a standard you should have been using for years and learning it is as easy as following examples in a style guide. It avoids the potential issue of having to guess at what the teacher wants for style or having every teacher use their own.

And yeah, if there are other issues with the teacher, you made an odd choice of what to lead with. I get that rants are often by nature incoherent, but they work better when they are more coherent and better still when they are legitimate gripes.

6/10: Needs improvement

 

[symbolipoint]

Seeing that many of you don't really know what MLA formatting is shows how useful the material I'm learning really is.

And the material is the issue for the students, because it isn't really covered in class and only as a reading assignment for this particular semester. Most of the students in my class have a similar problem. I'm not the type of student to really complain about working hard, I'm just upset I have a teacher that doesn't know how to be helpful. I love working hard and feeling accomplished. I have a good GPA and I am getting good grades at the moment and I'm focused. This is my worst class partially because I haven't been exposed to a teacher like my current one before and was unprepared for her lack of experience.

I know my posts haven't been clear and might have sounded contradicting but I was ranting.

Maybe. We who are reading the topic do not fully understand your case. You might be in a graduate level course or at least something upper-division and have seen yourself conforming to strict rules and done so well, but this is maybe not working so well for one particular course with one particular professor.

 

[vela]

The reason why I'm arguing is because there is an argument to be found. My teacher hasn't really helped anyone with the concepts people in the class have issues with.

The concepts aren't the problem. It is the teacher. And yes if I have a terrible boss I would argue with my boss

I'd guess the teacher thinks you are capable of reading and understanding a style guide. It's not exactly brain surgery to adhere to a specific format and style. I've found when my students fail to meet these types of requirements, it's usually because they're too lazy to figure out the instructions or simply think meeting the requirements for an assignment just isn't important. Often, they think, "This looks too complicated. I'll just do what I feel like doing." So your teacher has a choice: She can cave and spoon-feed you so you don't have to read and understand a style guide, or she can stick to her standards and expect you to figure it out on your own. It sounds like she's going for the latter.

 

[symbolipoint]

I just checked MLA site, and the information is extremely detailed with so many examples, and very little clear discussion of format parts.
https://style.mla.org/works-cited-a-quick-guide-journal/

Daveyzombie, do you at least have a copy of the MLA style guide? You would need to use it as reference for how to write your reports.

 

[micromass]

And the material is the issue for the students, because it isn't really covered in class and only as a reading assignment for this particular semester.

Wow, are you really complaining that you have to study something outside of class? Have fun getting an actual job where having to work independently will happen all the time.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

What is the big deal? It's simply a formatting guide. Microsoft Word has settings for APA and MLA formatting styles so that you don't have to do much. You will be writing dozens of papers required in this style, why should it have to be reviewed at every course? If you have a problem with this format, you need to check out the standards for a paper in a STEM field, they are far more strict.

There are very good reasons for having simple writing guidelines. Do you know the crazy things that students would do to their papers if given free roam? You have to remember that the teacher has to actually read each paper (usually), from multiple classes, out of class time. It's efficient and practical.

If you will just apply yourself to learn the format, it will become natural and you will be glad that those are just less things you have to worry about deciding upon!

 

[symbolipoint]

Fervent Freyja more clearly described what was the intent of my post #3.

One imagines that the student possesses a copy of the M.L.A. style guide and must refer to it and conform to standards demonstrated in there. Highschool and j.c. stuff.

 

[StevieTNZ]

Wow, are you really complaining that you have to study something outside of class? Have fun getting an actual job where having to work independently will happen all the time.

I agree. At university, you should expect to do research yourself. Not everything is dealt with in the lectures and tutorials/labs.

 

[Kevin McHugh]

I just don't understand how I am going to need MLA a lot going into a STEM field. Maybe some of you can inspire me to see the light in this situation. I really hate this class and my teacher and finding positivity is quite tough.

It's not the style guide so much as learning how to use them. In my senior year we had to take a 2 ch course called Professional Skills. We had to learn to use Bielsteins, make presentations, and write a research paper worthy of publication. I forget what style guide we used, but it had to be exact. Also in graduate school, we had to take a communications workshop. In that, we had to write a paper worthy of publication. Turabian was the style guide. The point is, quit expecting things handed to you, and do the assignment as assigned.

 

[Kevin McHugh]

S. This is my worst class partially because I haven't been exposed to a teacher like my current one before and was unprepared for her lack of experience..

Perhaps she's not the one lacking experience.

 

[symbolipoint]

Almost a day and a half ago, the last time original poster gave this last reply:

Seeing that many of you don't really know what MLA formatting is shows how useful the material I'm learning really is.

And the material is the issue for the students, because it isn't really covered in class and only as a reading assignment for this particular semester. Most of the students in my class have a similar problem. I'm not the type of student to really complain about working hard, I'm just upset I have a teacher that doesn't know how to be helpful. I love working hard and feeling accomplished. I have a good GPA and I am getting good grades at the moment and I'm focused. This is my worst class partially because I haven't been exposed to a teacher like my current one before and was unprepared for her lack of experience.

I know my posts haven't been clear and might have sounded contradicting but I was ranting.

Enough time passed that you could clearly identify the actual problem. Is the problem with understanding the M.L.A. style guide, or in which way your teacher/professor wants conformance to it such as which choices to make for how to conform to in the guide? Or is the problem one of conceptual understanding of your course's topics? Can you precisely summarize the complaints that your class as a group have?

 

[Psinter]

Just kill this thread.

I think this thread should be closed for OP's sake. I can see what most of the repliers are doing (or did) and I can see where they are coming. It is not good and I do not see it with good eyes. If I were OP, I would let this thread fall into oblivion (that is, not reply anymore). A few have given answers that are clear which would mark this in many other places as answered. Like: "You made a rant (despite the forum rules), you made a question, and besides the few that mocked you, another few gave you serious answers. I'm closing this to avoid attracting more mockery and low quality approaches to answering your question."

 

[symbolipoint]

Just kill this thread.

I think this thread should be closed for OP's sake. I can see what most of the repliers are doing (or did) and I can see where they are coming. It is not good and I do not see it with good eyes. If I were OP, I would let this thread fall into oblivion (that is, not reply anymore). A few have given answers that are clear which would mark this in many other places as answered. Like: "You made a rant (despite the forum rules), you made a question, and besides the few that mocked you, another few gave you serious answers. I'm closing this to avoid attracting more mockery and low quality approaches to answering your question."

I am in favor of this too. O.P. just must deal with current course difficulty as best can, and try to do better, like maybe if he needs to repeat the course, or too, if takes it from another professor - either way, later he may know more than he does at present.