Meissner effect, thought experiment.

[isysdamn]

This has been on my mind for a while now; and I really need some outside input to either expand or put this idea to rest.

So this idea relies on the Meissner effect; which during the transition of a material from a natural state to a superconducting state the magnetic permeability of that material approaches zero, or is zero... I'm not really convinced, but... Let us assume it is zero.

So you have a natural dipole magnet inside of a "special" cup that fits the magnet perfectly. When the "special" cup switches from it's natural state to it's superconducting state, what happens?

Cross-section of my idea:
http://meton.net/files/TEid1.png

My thoughts are that the function of permeability during the phase change is linear; therefore there will by an asymptotic change in the magnetic field through the cup. And my thoughts are that the natural magnet will be ejected from the cup at intense velocity; nearly relativistic velocity.

But intuitively, i believe there must be a natural mechanic that will prevent his from occurring; I just can't think of one.

Anyway tear this idea apart; I welcome it.

 

[isysdamn]

Grr. I hate this... I mean continuous when I said linear; a habit of them being one in the same in the math I'm immersed in right now.

 

[SpectraCat]

This has been on my mind for a while now; and I really need some outside input to either expand or put this idea to rest.

So this idea relies on the Meissner effect; which during the transition of a material from a natural state to a superconducting state the magnetic permeability of that material approaches zero, or is zero... I'm not really convinced, but... Let us assume it is zero.

So you have a natural dipole magnet inside of a "special" cup that fits the magnet perfectly. When the "special" cup switches from it's natural state to it's superconducting state, what happens?

Cross-section of my idea:
http://meton.net/files/TEid1.png

My thoughts are that the function of permeability during the phase change is linear; therefore there will by an asymptotic change in the magnetic field through the cup. And my thoughts are that the natural magnet will be ejected from the cup at intense velocity; nearly relativistic velocity.

But intuitively, i believe there must be a natural mechanic that will prevent his from occurring; I just can't think of one.

Anyway tear this idea apart; I welcome it.

Hmmm ... why do you think the acceleration will be so large? I have done Meissner effect experiments with ceramic super conductors, and the magnets just lift up gently to a height of a few mm ... they don't go shooting up into the air. However, I didn't use very strong magnets ... just little chips of magnetite. The force will be proportional to the magnetic flux density that is repelled from the surface, so you can probably get a more dramatic effect from stronger rare-earth magnets, and putting the magnet inside a cup as you have suggested seems like it will also amplify the effect. But in the end, you still just have F=ma, so I can't see how you would get anywhere near relativistic acceleration.

 

[ZapperZ]

As with SpectraCat, I've done this many times as demos and not sure why one would expect the expulsion of magnetic fields could cause such a tremendous force.

Furthermore, most superconductors are Type II, which means that as soon as it becomes superconducting, there are still flux lines penetrating various regions of the bulk material. It is only below a second critical temperature do you get a complete expulsion of these flux lines. What this means is that at the higher critical temperatures, these flux lines actually could "pin" the magnet from flying out because it field lines will try to resist from being twisted/changed.

Zz.

 

[pmacias]

As a scientist, it is always exciting to see someone exploring new ideas and thought experiments. The Meissner effect is a well-known phenomenon in the field of superconductivity, and it is interesting to see it being applied in a new way.

Firstly, I would like to clarify that the Meissner effect does not involve any change in the magnetic permeability of a material. It is the expulsion of magnetic flux from the interior of a superconductor as it transitions into its superconducting state. This expulsion is due to the formation of supercurrents on the surface of the superconductor, which create an opposing magnetic field that cancels out the external magnetic field.

In your thought experiment, you are proposing the use of a "special" cup that can switch from its natural state to a superconducting state. While this is an interesting idea, it is important to note that the Meissner effect only occurs in materials that are already in their superconducting state. So, the cup itself would need to be made of a superconducting material in order for the effect to take place.

Additionally, it is not clear how the dipole magnet would be affected by the Meissner effect. The magnet would still have its own magnetic field, and the Meissner effect would not change that. It is possible that the supercurrents on the surface of the cup could interact with the magnetic field of the magnet, but it is difficult to predict the exact outcome without more information.

Furthermore, the idea of the natural magnet being ejected at nearly relativistic velocity seems unlikely. Superconductors have been extensively studied and used in various applications, and there has been no evidence of such extreme effects. While the behavior of superconductors can sometimes seem counterintuitive, they still follow the laws of physics.

In conclusion, your thought experiment is certainly interesting and thought-provoking, but it may need further refinement and consideration of the fundamental principles of the Meissner effect and superconductivity. Keep exploring and questioning, as that is the essence of science.