Possibility of a quasar jet laser impacting Earth directly

[FelixLudi]

I understand quasars as black holes with an accretion disk and occassional jets of mass being shot out of the black hole from it's top and bottom. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

If so, what is the actual possibility for that type of quasar to be rotated so heavily that it rotates on a horizontal axis relative to the universe, in that way technically the top and bottom of said BH would be angled towards other objects in the universe and perhaps even Earth itself.

I may have given a vague description of what I meant, please inform me if you have any questions about this.

 

[mathman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar

above may help

 

[phinds]

... what is the actual possibility for that type of quasar to be rotated so heavily that it rotates on a horizontal axis relative to the universe

Zero, since there is no such thing as "a horizontal axis relative to the universe"

Perhaps you mean "radiating in the plane of the Milky Way galaxy". That would be required in order for it to point towards Earth.

 

[PeterDonis]

Perhaps you mean "radiating in the plane of the Milky Way galaxy". That would be required in order for it to point towards Earth.

No, what is required is "jet pointing towards Earth". That will only correspond to "in the plane of the Milky Way galaxy" if the quasar itself happens to be in the plane of the Milky Way galaxy.

In addition, the jet needs to not simply be pointing towards Earth, but to be long enough to reach Earth. Since the closest quasar to Earth is billions of light-years away, and jets only have lengths of millions of light-years, this latter is actually what keeps such jets from reaching Earth and affecting things here.

 

[phinds]

No, what is required is "jet pointing towards Earth". That will only correspond to "in the plane of the Milky Way galaxy" if the quasar itself happens to be in the plane of the Milky Way galaxy.

In addition, the jet needs to not simply be pointing towards Earth, but to be long enough to reach Earth. Since the closest quasar to Earth is billions of light-years away, and jets only have lengths of millions of light-years, this latter is actually what keeps such jets from reaching Earth and affecting things here.

Thanks Peter, I forgot to consider that the jets can reach farther than the diameter of the Milky Way.

 

[FelixLudi]

Thank you.
But considering that humanity stays alive for billions of years, and the sun doesn't evolve in the red giant phase yet, the Andromeda galaxy would at that point be merging with the Milky Way. What are the odds of a supermassive black hole in the center to gather enough mass to form an accretion disk, and later on a quasar?

 

[PeterDonis]

the Andromeda galaxy would at that point be merging with the Milky Way. What are the odds of a supermassive black hole in the center to gather enough mass to form an accretion disk, and later on a quasar?

The black holes that power quasars are several orders of magnitude more massive than the holes at the center of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies (billions of solar masses vs. a few million solar masses). So I think it's unlikely that a quasar could form from the merger of our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy. However, I'm also not sure that a quasar is the only thing that could produce jets of the kind you are talking about; a merger of the two million solar mass holes in the centers of our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy might form a rapidly spinning hole that could produce jets even if it didn't have other characteristics of a quasar.

 

[kimbyd]

Thank you.
But considering that humanity stays alive for billions of years, and the sun doesn't evolve in the red giant phase yet, the Andromeda galaxy would at that point be merging with the Milky Way. What are the odds of a supermassive black hole in the center to gather enough mass to form an accretion disk, and later on a quasar?

If the supermassive black hole at the center of either the Milky Way or Andromeda galaxy became active during the merger, then it's possible that its beam would intersect some number of star systems in one or the other galaxy. However, as the merger itself will modify the orbits of star systems, I don't think anybody can reasonably estimate just how many star systems would be impacted, let alone which specific ones.

Chances are the probability is incredibly tiny.

But the Sun will cause the Earth's oceans to boil in about a billion years regardless, so this is a non-issue for life on Earth.

 

[jim mcnamara]

How about a discussion that indicates that the rapidity of one extinction event may (this means maybe) have been related to Gamma Ray Burst activity.
This is behind a paywall for me. So an abstract link is what I can provide.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...s-extinction/F37A58C811EB82496CEF6CF989159807

Did a gamma-ray burst initiate the late Ordovician mass extinction?
A.L. Melott (a1), B.S. Lieberman (a2), C.M. Laird (a1), L.D. Martin (a3) ...

• • https://doi.org/10.1017/S1473550404001910
  • Published online: 05 August 2004

Paper on late Ordovician extinction events from 2004. Abstract

Gamma-ray bursts (GRBs) produce a flux of radiation detectable across the observable Universe. A GRB within our own galaxy could do considerable damage to the Earth's biosphere; rate estimates suggest that a dangerously near GRB should occur on average two or more times per billion years. At least five times in the history of life, the Earth has experienced mass extinctions that eliminated a large percentage of the biota. Many possible causes have been documented, and GRBs may also have contributed. The late Ordovician mass extinction approximately 440 million years ago may be at least partly the result of a GRB. A special feature of GRBs in terms of terrestrial effects is a nearly impulsive energy input of the order of 10 s. Due to expected severe depletion of the ozone layer, intense solar ultraviolet radiation would result from a nearby GRB, and some of the patterns of extinction and survivorship at this time may be attributable to elevated levels of UV radiation reaching the Earth. In addition, a GRB could trigger the global cooling which occurs at the end of the Ordovician period that follows an interval of relatively warm climate. Intense rapid cooling and glaciation at that time, previously identified as the probable cause of this mass extinction, may have resulted from a GRB.

Conclusive? No... Fun to think about, definitely.

 

[FelixLudi]

A merger of the two million solar mass holes in the centers of our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy might form a rapidly spinning hole that could produce jets even if it didn't have other characteristics of a quasar.

Regardless if it's a spinning BH or not, I presume the BHs of both galaxies wouldn't not collide directly upon each but form a binary BH system before merging, and therefore be able to consume enough mass as they orbit each other to produce an accretion disk, and for it to appear on such small scale relative to other quasars, I believe it could form a jet because of the "overload" of mass they would receive from a such merge.

Are there any previous cases of this that were recorded?
Where 2 relatively smaller BHs would consume enough mass around them in the merging process that they form jets (before or after merging, regardless).

 

[FelixLudi]

"Due to expected severe depletion of the ozone layer, intense solar ultraviolet radiation would result from a nearby GRB, and some of the patterns of extinction and survivorship at this time may be attributable to elevated levels of UV radiation reaching the Earth. In addition, a GRB could trigger the global cooling which occurs at the end of the Ordovician period that follows an interval of relatively warm climate. Intense rapid cooling and glaciation at that time, previously identified as the probable cause of this mass extinction, may have resulted from a GRB."

I believe as stated before, regardless of space expansion 440 million years ago, there are no said quasars in the vicinity of our star system.
However that brings up the question if said event has happened where two black holes had merged to form a jet stream.

A good find on the paper though, it's definitely just a hypothesis that can not be proven, atleast not yet.
Fun to think about though.

 

[PeterDonis]

I presume the BHs of both galaxies wouldn't not collide directly upon each but form a binary BH system before merging

They might, yes. But whether they did or not, since the system consisting of both holes together is highly unlikely to have zero or small angular momentum, the final hole once they merge will be spinning, and probably spinning fairly rapidly.

and therefore be able to consume enough mass as they orbit each other to produce an accretion disk,

I don't see why this couldn't happen even if the holes merged without spending significant time as a binary system.

Are there any previous cases of this that were recorded?

I don't think we have ever observed jets in the process of formation. Given that the process is likely to take a long time, and that it might not happen very often, it's not implausible that we simply have not been observing long enough to see one yet.

 

[rootone]

Quasars are whole galaxies with very active black holes.
There is nothing like that near our own galaxy.
The quasars we know of are billions of light years away.

 

[kimbyd]

How about a discussion that indicates that the rapidity of one extinction event may (this means maybe) have been related to Gamma Ray Burst activity.

That would be a completely different phenomenon unrelated to the OP.

A GRB could definitely sterilize the Earth (or at least cause significant environmental damage) if it occurred close enough to us. I'm not sure there are any candidate progenitors close enough to us that we are currently aware of.

 

[FelixLudi]

How about a discussion that indicates that the rapidity of one extinction event may (this means maybe) have been related to Gamma Ray Burst activity.

That would be a completely different phenomenon unrelated to the OP.

A GRB could definitely sterilize the Earth (or at least cause significant environmental damage) if it occurred close enough to us. I'm not sure there are any candidate progenitors close enough to us that we are currently aware of.

Well technically I did ask what were the odds of a quasar impacting Earth.
Technically a quasar could be considered a black hole with jet streams (GRBs).

Although, I believe this was answered already.

Since the closest quasar to Earth is billions of light-years away, and jets only have lengths of millions of light-years, this latter is actually what keeps such jets from reaching Earth and affecting things here.

The black holes that power quasars are several orders of magnitude more massive than the holes at the center of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies (billions of solar masses vs. a few million solar masses). So I think it's unlikely that a quasar could form from the merger of our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy. However, I'm also not sure that a quasar is the only thing that could produce jets of the kind you are talking about; a merger of the two million solar mass holes in the centers of our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy might form a rapidly spinning hole that could produce jets even if it didn't have other characteristics of a quasar.

 

[kimbyd]

Well technically I did ask what were the odds of a quasar impacting Earth.
Technically a quasar could be considered a black hole with jet streams (GRBs).

Although, I believe this was answered already.

GRBs and black holes with jets are completely different phenomena.

 

[FelixLudi]

GRBs and black holes with jets are completely different phenomena.

Aren't BH's jets a source of a GRB?

 

[kimbyd]

Aren't BH's jets a source of a GRB?

Possibly during a collision of a black hole and a neutron star. Either way, GRBs are short-lived, extremely violent events. Black hole jets are usually though to be much longer-lived affairs that occur during the course of the black hole absorbing a much larger accretion disc.