Practical use of Bose-Einstein condensate?

In summary, the conversation discusses the possibility of using Bose Einstein condensate (BEC) as a target for creating new elements. However, it is explained that this is not feasible due to the difficulty of bringing nuclei together and the dilute nature of BEC. Some confusion is also addressed about the nature of BEC and its potential applications in fields such as inertial navigation and gravitational sensing. The conversation also briefly touches on the development of new materials like graphene, but it is clarified that this is not related to BEC.
  • #1
Bishop85
4
1
I'm not a physicist nor an academic, however, the world around me fascinates me. I was watching YouTube and came across an explanation of Bose Einstein condensate, and thought with less space between atoms that would potentially be a better target for creating new elements. So my question is barring money and other red tape because that's a different beast, is the idea sound enough in theory to use BEC as a target for new element production?
 
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  • #2
No, that will never happen. To create new elements, you need to bring the nuclei together, and that takes a huge amount of energy. Also, BEC is achieved in very dilute gases, because the natural state of matter at the low temperatures that are needed is solid, so you have to reduce the probabilities of three-body collisions that would lead to the gas simply becoming solid.

Some confusion might come from the fact that in a BEC, the atoms occupy the same state, so they can be thought of as all being one on top of the other. While this picture is not completely incorrect, the potential between two atoms is unchanged from what it is in other conditions, such that the probability that two nuclei of different atoms in the condensate are at the same place is practically 0.
 
  • #3
Note, however, that there ARE -at least potentially- practical applications forBEC; most of these are related to e.g. inertial navigation using atom interferometry and gravitational sensing.
There are already working prototypes but whether this is actually commercially viable is still a bit of a open question (you might want to have one instrument on each nuclear sub, but that is not a very big market).
 
  • #4
DrClaude said:
No, that will never happen. To create new elements, you need to bring the nuclei together, and that takes a huge amount of energy. Also, BEC is achieved in very dilute gases, because the natural state of matter at the low temperatures that are needed is solid, so you have to reduce the probabilities of three-body collisions that would lead to the gas simply becoming solid.

Some confusion might come from the fact that in a BEC, the atoms occupy the same state, so they can be thought of as all being one on top of the other. While this picture is not completely incorrect, the potential between two atoms is unchanged from what it is in other conditions, such that the probability that two nuclei of different atoms in the condensate are at the same place is practically 0.

the video I watch was using sodium to create the BEC heated to 700 f and then cooled with lasers. here is the video . it was my understanding that the elements in BEC once formed resembles particles in a neutron star, flattened and squeezed together thus removing "wiggle room" for on coming atoms from a collider to miss. I did wonder about the energy difference between the in coming atoms at high energy and the stationary atoms of low energy and how that would effect subsequent trials. thanks you for putting up with my ramblings lol.
 
  • #5
f95toli said:
Note, however, that there ARE -at least potentially- practical applications forBEC; most of these are related to e.g. inertial navigation using atom interferometry and gravitational sensing.
There are already working prototypes but whether this is actually commercially viable is still a bit of a open question (you might want to have one instrument on each nuclear sub, but that is not a very big market).
gravitational sensing, like what they detected the neutron star collision with? I love this stuff called science lol. maybe with the development of new meta materials like graphine ( so interesting look it up if your not familiar) we will be able to cheapen the cost of said endeavors
 
  • #6
Bishop85 said:
gravitational sensing, like what they detected the neutron star collision with? I love this stuff called science lol. maybe with the development of new meta materials like graphine ( so interesting look it up if your not familiar) we will be able to cheapen the cost of said endeavors

I like your enthusiasm, but you need to make sure you don't end up in a word salad.

"Graphine" (sic) is NOT a metamaterial. It is a REAL material. A metamaterial is a material that is made up of small units of conductors of rods, split rings, etc... Graphene is, to put is naively, a sheet of carbon atoms.

How BE condensate somehow morphed into using graphene and metamaterials, that's beyond my comprehension.

Zz.
 
  • #7
ZapperZ said:
I like your enthusiasm, but you need to make sure you don't end up in a word salad.

"Graphine" (sic) is NOT a metamaterial. It is a REAL material. A metamaterial is a material that is made up of small units of conductors of rods, split rings, etc... Graphene is, to put is naively, a sheet of carbon atoms.

How BE condensate somehow morphed into using graphene and metamaterials, that's beyond my comprehension.

Zz.
The connection isn't clear and I'm sorry your right, I also did misspell graphyne, I was trying to say that with relatively new discoveries once we learn to mass produce them the cost of hard ware used in these complex experiments would go down. I said metamaterial because I don't think of carbon being a very good conductor which is why it was used in some of the first light bulbs. I have an issue with making my self understood, its bad lol.
 
  • #8
Bishop85 said:
it was my understanding that the elements in BEC once formed resembles particles in a neutron star, flattened and squeezed together thus removing "wiggle room" for on coming atoms from a collider to miss.
No.
Bishop85 said:
I said metamaterial because I don't think of carbon being a very good conductor which is why it was used in some of the first light bulbs.
Don't make up words please, especially if you are not sure these words are not used elsewhere already. It will just lead to misunderstandings.
Bishop85 said:
gravitational sensing, like what they detected the neutron star collision with? I love this stuff called science lol. maybe with the development of new meta materials like graphine ( so interesting look it up if your not familiar) we will be able to cheapen the cost of said endeavors
It doesn't help to randomly propose "maybe X will help with Y" without any specific proposal how.
 

What is a Bose-Einstein condensate and how is it created?

A Bose-Einstein condensate is a state of matter that occurs when a group of bosons, which are a type of particle, are cooled to a temperature close to absolute zero. At this temperature, the particles lose their individual identities and behave as one collective entity. This state was first predicted by Albert Einstein and Satyendra Nath Bose in the 1920s. To create a Bose-Einstein condensate, scientists use lasers and magnetic fields to cool and trap a gas of bosons, such as rubidium or sodium atoms, in a vacuum chamber.

What are the practical applications of Bose-Einstein condensate?

Bose-Einstein condensates have been used to study fundamental physics principles, such as superfluidity and quantum entanglement. They also have potential applications in technologies such as quantum computing, precision measurements, and sensors. Additionally, scientists are exploring the use of Bose-Einstein condensates in creating new types of materials with unique properties.

How does the behavior of particles in a Bose-Einstein condensate differ from those in other states of matter?

The behavior of particles in a Bose-Einstein condensate is governed by quantum mechanics, which is different from classical mechanics that governs the behavior of particles in other states of matter. In a Bose-Einstein condensate, particles can occupy the same quantum state, allowing them to behave as a single entity rather than individual particles. This results in unique properties such as superfluidity, where the particles can flow without any resistance.

What are the challenges in studying and using Bose-Einstein condensates?

One of the main challenges in studying Bose-Einstein condensates is that they can only exist at extremely low temperatures, close to absolute zero. This requires specialized equipment and techniques to cool and trap the particles. Another challenge is the fragility of the condensate, which can easily be disrupted by external factors such as vibrations or stray magnetic fields. Additionally, understanding the behavior of particles in a Bose-Einstein condensate requires a deep understanding of quantum mechanics, which can be complex and difficult to grasp.

Are there any real-world examples of Bose-Einstein condensates?

Yes, Bose-Einstein condensates have been created in laboratories around the world, and have also been observed in nature. For example, some types of superconductors and superfluids exhibit properties similar to Bose-Einstein condensates. The superfluidity of liquid helium is also a result of Bose-Einstein condensate behavior. Additionally, some scientists believe that the early universe may have been in a state similar to a Bose-Einstein condensate, which helped form the large-scale structure of the universe.

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