Pressure force on curved surfaces: vertical component

In summary: At a given horizontal level in the fluid the pressure is the same everywhere; if not, fluid would flow from the higher pressure to the lower.
  • #1
Est120
51
3
Homework Statement
Find the vertical force
Relevant Equations
F=Pave*A, Pave=rho*g*hc
hi guys, i can't understand why they calculate F yin this way, the part of floor that is the vertical proyection has less water than the floor in the left so i tought Fy would be less, please can someone explain this concept to me?
 

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  • #2
I don't understand the diagram. Where is the soil, and which surface are you trying to find the pressure force on?
 
  • #3
the image is ugly but the concept I am still trying to understand is the following: in the curved body of water just down the cilinder why Fy is calculated that way? I am assuming that the force due to pressure on the ground is rho*g*5 and the floor exerts this force in opposite direction on the fluid but , it is still valid for the curved body of water? even if it doesn't has any "weight" of water above? i put 2 images to show that people solve this kind of problems this way but doesn't really explain this concept (as usually)
 
  • #4
How would you determine the upward force that the water exerts on the cylinder?
 
  • #5
i would just calculate FR from Fh and Fv then the force of the water on the cilinder is the same in magnitude but in opposite direction pointing towards the center, the problem is that i can't understand why Fy is calculated that way, it doesn't matter that the portion of fluid in the curved body have less water above?
 
  • #6
Est120 said:
i would just calculate FR from Fh and Fv then the force of the water on the cilinder is the same in magnitude but in opposite direction pointing towards the center, the problem is that i can't understand why Fy is calculated that way, it doesn't matter that the portion of fluid in the curved body have less water above?
Suppose, rather than calculating the upward force exerted by the water on the curved quarter of the cylinder, you calculated the downward force exerted by the curved quarter of the cylinder on the limited slab of water directly beneath it. By Newton's 3rd law, this would be equal in magnitude to the upward force of the water on the cylinder. Would this be OK with you?
 
  • #7
Est120 said:
the part of floor that is the vertical proyection has less water than the floor in the left so i tought Fy would be less
Pressure at a point in a fluid depends on the height of fluid above the point. It is completely independent of the depth below the point.
The pressure at a depth of 10m in the ocean is the same whether just offshore or over the Marianas Trench.
 
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  • #8
that is what I am trying to say, at the left the floor has 5m of fluid above but at the right (the floor that is the vertical proyection of quarter of the cilinder) has only 0.8m of fluid above, I am very confused about this kind of calculations i never get the why in a way that i can understand clearly rather than memorize the concept
 
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  • #9
Est120 said:
that is what I am trying to say, at the left the floor has 5m of fluid above but at the right (the floor that is the vertical proyection of quarter of the cilinder) has only 0.8m of fluid above, I am very confused about this kind of calculations i never get the why in a way that i can understand clearly rather than memorize the concept
At a given horizontal level in the fluid the pressure is the same everywhere; if not, fluid would flow from the higher pressure to the lower.
Don't worry about the fluid below a point on the curved surface, just consider the depth of that point below a point in the fluid where the pressure is known, e.g. at a surface exposed to the atmosphere.
 
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  • #10
Est120 said:
that is what I am trying to say, at the left the floor has 5m of fluid above but at the right (the floor that is the vertical proyection of quarter of the cilinder) has only 0.8m of fluid above, I am very confused about this kind of calculations i never get the why in a way that i can understand clearly rather than memorize the concept
You haven't responded to my post #6. I would appreciate a response.
 
  • #11
all my issue is about Fy, why it has that value?, the force the liquid exerts on the floor at the right is the same
Chestermiller said:
Suppose, rather than calculating the upward force exerted by the water on the curved quarter of the cylinder, you calculated the downward force exerted by the curved quarter of the cylinder on the limited slab of water directly beneath it. By Newton's 3rd law, this would be equal in magnitude to the upward force of the water on the cylinder. Would this be OK with you?
yes, that is ok i can clearly understand that concept my issue was Fy calculated in that manner, thank you for the response
 
  • #12
Est120 said:
all my issue is about Fy, why it has that value?, the force the liquid exerts on the floor at the right is the same

yes, that is ok i can clearly understand that concept my issue was Fy calculated in that manner, thank you for the response
The free body diagram for the "shoe shaped" region of water situated directly underneath the curved surface, and sandwiched in-between the cylinder and the base, is shown in your original figure (in post #1). It shows the vertical force due to the weight of the fluid contained in this region, the upward force from the base, the horizontal force exerted by the fluid on the left, and the horizontal and vertical components of the force from the cylinder surface acting on the fluid. Do you see these forces in the figure? We are going to do a vertical equilibrium force balance on this shoe-shaped region. Is it the upward vertical force from the base that you do not understand?
 
  • #13
Est120 said:
that is what I am trying to say, at the left the floor has 5m of fluid above but at the right (the floor that is the vertical proyection of quarter of the cilinder) has only 0.8m of fluid above, I am very confused about this kind of calculations i never get the why in a way that i can understand clearly rather than memorize the concept
Please, see:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_law

Imagine replacing the cylinder with a 45-degree floodgate.
Does that change modify the direction and intensity of the average force trying to open that gate respect to the force acting on the cylinder?
 
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  • #14
Lnewqban said:
Please, see:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_law

Imagine replacing the cylinder with a 45-degree floodgate.
Does that change modify the direction and intensity of the average force trying to open that gate respect to the force acting on the cylinder?
This changes the weight of the water in the free body, which changes the net downward force from the overlying surface.
 
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  • #15
Est120 said:
my issue was Fy calculated in that manner
Can you explain more clearly what it is that you do not understand? Since you do not seem to be finding our posts helpful, maybe we do not understand your difficulty.

As I explained in post #9, the pressure at a point in a given fluid depends only on its depth below the free surface, so at all points across the bottom of the triangularish region it is the same. Considered as a single force, it therefore acts at the midpoint.
 
  • #16
your post helped me a lot!, thanks i had the issue with fy calculated in that manner because i tought that the force acting on the shaped region base was simply the weight of the fluid in that shaped region, e.g in the floor at the left the force acting is rho*g*5*A which is simply the hydrostatic formula for the pressure times the area
 

1. What is pressure force on curved surfaces?

Pressure force on curved surfaces is the force exerted by a fluid on a curved surface due to the pressure of the fluid. This force is perpendicular to the surface and can be broken down into two components: the vertical component and the horizontal component.

2. How is the vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces calculated?

The vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces is calculated by multiplying the pressure at a specific point on the surface by the projected area of that point onto a horizontal plane. This calculation takes into account the curvature of the surface and the angle at which the fluid is acting on the surface.

3. What is the significance of the vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces?

The vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces is important in determining the stability and equilibrium of objects or structures that are subjected to fluid pressure. It also plays a role in the design of curved surfaces, such as the wings of airplanes or the hull of ships, to ensure they can withstand the pressure forces acting on them.

4. How does the vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces differ from that on flat surfaces?

The vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces differs from that on flat surfaces because the curvature of the surface affects the direction and magnitude of the force. On a flat surface, the force is always perpendicular to the surface, but on a curved surface, the force can have both a vertical and horizontal component.

5. What factors can affect the vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces?

The vertical component of pressure force on curved surfaces can be affected by the shape and curvature of the surface, the density and viscosity of the fluid, and the angle at which the fluid is acting on the surface. Other factors such as surface roughness and the presence of obstacles can also impact the vertical component of pressure force.

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