Sound Engineering: Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right?

In summary, the conversation discusses the difficulty of accurately reproducing timbre in digital instruments and voice changers, as well as the challenges of synthesizing sound. The concept of timbre is explained as a qualitative measure of the entire audio signal, which can change over time. The conversation also mentions the difficulty of defining and achieving good timbre, and the limitations of the MP3 standard in reproducing sound.
  • #1
ardnog
52
29
Apologies if wrong forum. Could not see anything about acoustics. Is this mathematics?

Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right? Digitised instruments and voice changers don't always sound right.

I had a chance to visit a recording studio. Was given a lengthly talk about sound from a sound engineers point of view, and things like timbre, that we don't can't do properly yet on a computer, so that they can't make a proper male<-->female voice changer, or plugin that makes an electric instrument sound like an acoustic etc. Though, they can get close for certain instruments to the point where the majority of professionals are fooled.
 
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  • #2
To my mind one must be careful so separate the questions of recording (and reproducing) sound from that of synthesis of sound (like the voice changer).
In principal, given sufficient bandwidth, there is no reason the that digital sound reproduction cannot exhibit arbitrary fidelity. (Gnashing of teeth from analog aficionados). The synthesis part is much more problematic and requires a very large set of actively changing parameters. For instance, try to synthesize Miles Davis.
 
  • #3
ardnog said:
Summary:: Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right? Digitised instruments and voice changers don't always sound right.

Apologies if wrong forum. Could not see anything about acoustics. Is this mathematics?

Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right? Digitised instruments and voice changers don't always sound right.

I had a chance to visit a recording studio. Was given a lengthly talk about sound from a sound engineers point of view, and things like timbre, that we don't can't do properly yet on a computer, so that they can't make a proper male<-->female voice changer, or plugin that makes an electric instrument sound like an acoustic etc. Though, they can get close for certain instruments to the point where the majority of professionals are fooled.
Timbre is a qualitative measure of the entire emitted audio signal; and even worse (from a modeling perspective) is that timbre can change over time (for example, the sound of a cymbal) because the relationships between individual frequencies that comprise the audio signal are not fixed in amplitude or phase as time progresses.

White noise is perfectly random- that can be simulated to some extent.
 
  • #4
ardnog said:
Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right?

You could start by trying to define timbre in term of measurable quantities. Not so easy.
 
  • #5
Andy Resnick said:
Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right?
Don't forget to define what you mean by good timbre and bad.
 
  • #6
anorlunda said:
Don't forget to define what you mean by good timbre and bad.

that wasn't my statement ("Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right?"), please don't attribute it to me.
 
  • #7
Andy Resnick said:
that wasn't my statement ("Why's it so hard to get things like timbre right?"), please don't attribute it to me.
Sorry, that was intended for the OP.
 
  • #8
I suspect she was using the sound engineers definintion of timbre. It was explained to me as what makes a piano and guitar sound different even though they're playing the same note, and the same for a male and female voice. Likely there are many different things that contribute that make it hard to synthesise, but I'm surprised the machine learning people haven't managed it either.
 
  • #9
The MP3 standard throws away some (or most) of the information, so we would not expect the reproduced sound wave to look the same as the original. And to trained ears, why should it not sound different?
 

1. Why is it important to get timbre right in sound engineering?

Timbre is an essential element in sound engineering because it determines the quality and character of a sound. It is what makes one instrument or voice sound different from another, even when playing the same note. Getting timbre right is crucial for creating a balanced and cohesive sound mix.

2. What factors contribute to the difficulty in achieving the right timbre?

There are several factors that make it challenging to get timbre right in sound engineering. Some of these include the specific characteristics of each instrument or voice, the acoustics of the recording environment, and the limitations of recording equipment and techniques. Additionally, personal preferences and subjective interpretations of timbre can also play a role.

3. How can a sound engineer improve their ability to get timbre right?

One of the best ways to improve timbre in sound engineering is to have a deep understanding of different instruments and their unique characteristics. This includes knowing how each instrument produces sound, its frequency range, and how it interacts with other instruments. Additionally, using high-quality recording equipment and techniques, and having a well-treated recording environment can also help in achieving the desired timbre.

4. Is getting timbre right a subjective process?

While there are objective elements to timbre, such as frequency and amplitude, it is also a subjective process. Each sound engineer may have a different interpretation of what the "right" timbre is, depending on their personal preferences and the specific sound they are trying to achieve. It is essential to have clear communication and a shared understanding of the desired timbre among all involved in the sound engineering process.

5. Can technology help in achieving the right timbre in sound engineering?

Technology has certainly made sound engineering more accessible and efficient, but it cannot replace the human ear and experience. While tools like equalizers and plugins can help shape the timbre of a sound, ultimately, it is up to the sound engineer's skill and expertise to achieve the desired result. Technology can be a valuable aid, but it should not be solely relied upon for getting timbre right in sound engineering.

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