The closure of an open set A, strictly bigger than A itself?

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of open and closed sets and their relationship to connectedness. It is stated that in a connected space, the closure of a non-empty proper open subset will be strictly larger than the subset itself. This is because in a connected space, no proper open subset can also be closed.
  • #1
adam512
8
0
Hi there!

Is the following true?

Suppose A is an open set and not closed. Cl(A) is closed and contains A, hence it contains at least one point not in A.

If A is both open and closed it obviously does not hold.
 
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  • #2
Stephen Tashi said:
In the axioms for a topology, we assume the whole space is an open set. Its closure wouldn't be larger.

But TS said
Suppose A is an open set and not closed.
and the whole space is closed (because it's the complement of the empty set).

As you've worded it, your statement is true. Suppose that cl(A) is not strictly bigger. By definition, it is not smaller either (it's the smallest closed set that contains A), so it must be exactly A.
 
  • #3
CompuChip said:
But TS said

and the whole space is closed (because it's the complement of the empty set).

As you've worded it, your statement is true. Suppose that cl(A) is not strictly bigger. By definition, it is not smaller either (it's the smallest closed set that contains A), so it must be exactly A.

I agree. I realized the mistake and deleted my post, before yours appeared.
 
  • #4
They just won't let you pretend you didn't make a mistake!

(They do that to me all the time!)
 
  • #5
Luckily you hardly make any Halls :P

Sorry Stephen, sometimes I leave the tab open and reply a bit later without hitting refresh first.
 
  • #6
adam512, there is an interesting concept related to your question, namely connectedness.

a space is connected if and only if the only sets that are both open and closed are the empty set and the whole space.

In other words, in a connected space, no "proper" open subset can be also closed.

Thus in a connected space, the closure of a non empty proper open subset A, will be strictly larger than A.
 

1. What is the closure of an open set A?

The closure of an open set A is the smallest closed set that contains all the points in A. This means that it includes all the boundary points of A, as well as the points within A.

2. How is the closure of an open set A different from A itself?

The closure of an open set A may contain additional points, such as boundary points, that are not included in A itself. A is considered an open set because it does not contain its boundary points, while the closure of A does.

3. Why is the closure of an open set A important?

The closure of an open set A is important because it helps us to define the boundary of A and determine which points are included in A. It also allows us to extend the definition of A to include its boundary points, which can be useful in certain mathematical proofs and applications.

4. Can the closure of an open set A be equal to A itself?

Yes, it is possible for the closure of an open set A to be equal to A itself. This would occur when A is already a closed set, meaning it contains all of its boundary points, and therefore does not require any additional points to be added to its closure.

5. How is the closure of an open set A calculated?

The closure of an open set A can be calculated using the closure operator, denoted as "cl(A)". This operator takes the set A and adds all of its boundary points to create the closure of A. In mathematical notation, cl(A) = A ∪ Bd(A), where Bd(A) represents the boundary of A.

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