Trajectory of pendulum in frame of rotating disk under it

In summary, the conversation discusses the motion of a pendulum attached to a rotating disk and how to compute the coordinates of the pendulum in the rotating frame. The conversation also mentions the characteristic equation and how it yields different results depending on the values of ω and Ω. The conversation ends with a question about why the imaginary unit's second power does not appear in the first term inside the square root in the characteristic equation.
  • #1
PyHop
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Homework Statement


Consider the pendulum depicted in the adjacent figure: a mass m
is attached to non stretching chord of length `. Directly below the
pendulum is a circular disc rotating with constant angular velocity
w. We attach to the disk a frame whose x-axis is in the plane of the
pendulum and the pendulum is in the extremal position to the right
at t = 0.

Compute the coordinates x and y of the pendulum in the rotating
frame as a function of t when the maximal angle of deflection qmax
is assumed small. And what curve does the motion of the pendulum correspond to in
the rotating frame if w = √(g/l). (Which is angular freq. of pendulum)Example of the situation (Starting from 0:49):

Homework Equations


[/B]
Same way as with Foucalt's pendulum, I've derived equation $$\ddot{u}+2ωi\dot{u}+Ω^{2}u=0$$
Where u is complex variable $$x+iy$$
ω is angular frequency of the disk and Ω of the pendulum
And the coordinate axes (x,y) in rotating plane is considered as complex plane here.

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
Solving characteristic equaton yields$$m^2 + 2ωim+Ω^2=0⇒m=-iω±√(i^2ω^2-Ω^2)$$

Now if this is solved for u, I get$$u=Ae^{-i(ω+√(Ω^2+ω^2))t}Be^{-i(ω-√(Ω^2+ω^2))t}$$

But then, if Ω = ω it seemingly should be that motion of pendulum in frame of rotating disk is circular. And if I plug that in the equation above, the trajectory seems to do same kind of "flower" as Foucalt's pendulum.

Then if the characteristic equation would instead yield $$⇒m=-iω±√(ω^2-Ω^2)$$ then the latter term would cancel out, and we would get (I suppose) circular motion of form:$$Ccos(√(g/l)t)+iDsin(√(g/l)t)$$

Which I have assumed what would be right answer. So what is problem with that 2. order characteristic equation, why doesn't imaginary unit's second power appear in the first terminside the square root? Or could that be right, and something else wrong here?

In example of Foucalt's pendulum, that equation was solved to form where there isn't 2. power of i in the first term inside sq. root, as in the term stayed positive, so that's why my first assumpton is that there's something I'm missing.
 
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  • #2
Then if the characteristic equation would instead yield...
... but does it yield that?
Which I have assumed what would be right answer...
On what basis are you making this assumption?
So what is problem with that 2. order characteristic equation, why doesn't imaginary unit's second power appear in the first term inside the square root?
... which 2nd order equation? (This is where it is useful to number your equations.)
Do you mean: ##m = -i\omega \pm \sqrt{\omega^2-\Omega^2}## ?
Then the answer is "I dunno" - you were the one who wrote it: why did you leave it out?
It looks like you left it out because you thought it would be nice to do so.

Your objection to just following the maths seems to be:
But then, if Ω = ω it seemingly should be that motion of pendulum in frame of rotating disk is circular. And if I plug that in the equation above, the trajectory seems to do same kind of "flower" as Foucalt's pendulum.
... since the pendulum should pass through the origin in both reference frames, circular motion is a problem, and I don't see how that somehow turns into the "flower" trajectory.
I'm guessing you have covered Foucault's pendulum in class, with a derivation. The approach here should be just about identical with F's P at a pole.
So what happens with that case that is different from this one?[FONT=PT Sans, san-serif][/FONT]
 

1. What is a pendulum?

A pendulum is a weight suspended from a pivot point that is able to swing back and forth due to the force of gravity.

2. What is a rotating disk?

A rotating disk is a circular object that rotates around its central axis. It is commonly used in experiments to study rotational motion and its effects.

3. How does a pendulum behave on a rotating disk?

When a pendulum is placed on a rotating disk, its trajectory will be affected by the rotation of the disk. This is because the pendulum experiences both the force of gravity and the centrifugal force from the rotation of the disk, causing it to deviate from its usual linear path.

4. What factors affect the trajectory of a pendulum on a rotating disk?

The trajectory of a pendulum on a rotating disk is affected by the speed of rotation of the disk, the length of the pendulum, and the initial angle at which the pendulum is released. Other factors such as air resistance and friction may also play a role.

5. What is the significance of studying the trajectory of a pendulum on a rotating disk?

Studying the trajectory of a pendulum on a rotating disk allows us to better understand the principles of rotational motion and how it affects the behavior of objects. It also has practical applications in fields such as physics and engineering, where rotational motion is commonly encountered.

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