Were ancient civilizations using pyramids as a form of GPS technology?

[Aca]

There is no pyramids in Bosnia. Offiicials from Country Musesm in Sarajevo (capital of B&H) called Osmanagic complete fraud. Yesterday (9th june) two archeologists from European Union of Archeologists visited Bosnia (not about pyramids but about more serious things) and on their way stopped in Visoko. At the press conference which was organized not about pyramids, but pyramids did became main subject, they declared that there in no human made pyramids in Visoko. Osmanagic is compplete sharlatan and people like Aca are the same lost like Osmanagic himself. And the worst and the sadest thing is that nationalists from bosnian muslims corpus are using pyramids in their everyday attacks on other two nations in bosnia. Last time i put this post iansmith (I supouse that he colud be some moderator) told me to put some links maybe like some kind of evidence or proof. serious media in bosnia and region are very carefull and suspicious about pyramids. they are not in rush to pubilsh every word which ocures about it, especilaly those comming from eskavation site from osmanagic crew. but when some respected scientist like that one in links belowe says something, it is broadcast all over the world. I live here (in B&H) and me, and many more normal people which are reasonable nonnationalist but patriots don't believe in pyramids. I would be very, very happy that pyramids exists in my country, who wouldn't. that can mean more money for everyone and more imoprtant, positive promotion of my country in world. I am very sad that with this "pyramids" nationalists are making bosnia again
subject to laugh.:((

http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/09-06-2006/81816-Bosnia-0
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2061081
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060610/ap_on_sc/bosnia_pyramid_controversy
http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20060609/4488f240_3ca6_1552620060609-982050277
http://www.archaeology.eu.com/weblog/
http://archaeoastronomy.co.uk/2006/04/26/final-thoughts-on-bosnian-pyramid/


so! for everyone coming here on this forum, BE Carefulll! like I said bosnian muslims nationalists are using pyramids, (which don't exists but it their confused evil minds manipulated by complete fraud and sharlatan Osmanagic, and many more local nationalist) for promotion of their evil nationalism polluted vision of bosnia and herzegovina.

My dear professor, you have forgotten to include your "stop-the-project petition" link!

You are a joke man! From your posts i can only conclude that you are either a chetnik or ustasha or both! As i said before i could care less about Osmanagic and his claims. As long as the excavation continues i am happy.

Does it have to be a pyramid? Apsolutely not! As a matter of fact, i would be more happy if what we have already seen are the ruins of some very, very, very old city! I will include the direct links to the photos so you could probably explain it what it is and how it got burried under meters of soil! But you are not inteligent enough for such a task!

We attack the "other two nation" in Bosnia every day! Who killed 8 thousand men and boys as young as 13 years old in Srebrenica in the last war? Chetniks and ustashas! Who destroyed the cities across Bosnia? Chetniks and ustashas! How many civilians got shot by snipers in Sarajevo while they were on the streets? Thousands! Who killed them? Chetnici and ustashe! Who started the last war in the first place? srbs and croats! And BTW, there is only one nation in Bosnia - the Bosnians. Now, they are either muslims, catholics or orthodox...etc, etc...if you don't feel that way pack your stuff buddy and hit the road!

You are avoiding the evidence just like those two baboons in Sarajevo! The only answer they could come up with was that it is a Bosnian city that sits on top...hm! How did it end up 12 feet under? Tell me that genius!

now back to the pictures...these are great!

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/140606/bpm_s1_13.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/15060602/Bosanska-piramida-Sunca-03.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/15060602/Bosanska-piramida-Sunca-02.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/15060602/Bosanska-piramida-Sunca-01.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/140606/bpm_s1_15.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/140606/bpm_s1_12.jpg

 

[quantumcarl]

There's an amateur video online of climbing to the top, or near the top, of the pyramid. It doesn't show much archaeologically, but I got a good sense of how big the thing is.

[MEDIA=youtube]-JigXhEZRuE[/MEDIA]&search=visoko[/URL]

And in case you haven't seen it yet, there's a report available online in .pdf format that might clear up a thing or two:

The report also includes a topographical map showing the five suspect hills. It's no wonder there's been confusion over their alignment. The outermost three appear to form an equilateral triangle, or at least close to it. Another set of three hills is aligned as in the belt of Orion. The arrangement of the other two suggests, if you turn the map upside down, the sword of Orion, though that's more of a stretch.

The last picture shows a sandstone slab in a tunnel being cleared of rubble with a shovel. Isn't that a bit crude for an archaeological dig?
Well, he/she is provoking you, anyway, and it's working. Your post was the most tasteless I've seen on these forums.[/QUOTE]

With this amount of emotional energy that has been spent on both trashing and supporting the existence of Bosnian pyramids... the hills could have been properly excavated, instead, by now.:devil:

Aca, the aerial photos are good. I'd like to see the other side of the main contender for a pyramid, and how it shapes up.

I don't know why there is so much opposition to this study. Now that I've seen these shots of the excavations at the "P of the Moon" it looks much better controled.

The strata down to the masonry is well preserved for following stratification of any other cultural occupation... good work Sam!

Please try to leave all the rivalry in the water... under the bridge. Any competitions or bad feelings between the citizens of former Yugoslavia will only hinder the growth of her newly formed nations. This would include developments such as are taking place in Visoko... and elsewhere.

Viva la Balkins!

 

[quantumcarl]

Tojen... the walk to the top of the pyramids is really enlightening.

You'd be hard pressed to see so many vistors at any other archaeological site. Viva Visoko! Man these people are going to clean up this summer... if not for a long time afterwards.

The path up the corner of the hill is interesting and shows some evidence of megalithic handy work that may or may not be associated with a very large pyramid. Very large!

EDIT

I went through the PDF document you linked us to and its really quite nicely laid out.

I saw a lot of the claims on the early versions of the website but this presentation of them is better and clearer. Plus there are new images...

for instance some of the photos of sandstone and "pyramid walls" are newer shots. Decifering the origins of these anomalies is made difficult when doing so by photos.

However, one cannot ignore the features of these finds. The pyramidal shape oriented to N S E W and echoed again further up the valley would have me declaring a monumental find as well.

There's no blaming or ridiculing Mr. Osmanagic for his expediant reaction to an obvious anomaly.

The shovel being ground into the surrounding strata in the tunnel is no surprise in archaeology. I have often excavated with a flat-nose shovel in cultural material that was much more sensitive than a 7 tonne, shaped and worn sandstone block. So, its ok and its cool.

I may have been a bit hard on the seasoned pyramidologist since I see today that his excavations do have some resemblence to what is termed "modern archaeology". I am sensitive myself to this because I studied under the late "Father of Modern Archaeology", Dr. Charles ("lets go skinny dippin'")Borden.

And Sam has followed one of Dr. Borden's main rules... his use of perfectly vertically cut walls of the excavation pit. It has to be perfectly vertically cut because that is the best way to get a reading of the stratification surrounding the excavation pit.

Sam followed this rule to a tee. Its like Herr Borden was standing over him running a ruler along the pit walls looking for warps in his stratification. Then he'd suggest a swim in the slough or the river because it was 115 degrees F.

I also noticed the bit about the target practise or artillary fire at the main feature of this find. This is what I mean... what's with all the opposition against a find like this?

 

[DougWeller]

Thanks for the photos, Aca. The aligned slabs are the most convincing for me so far.

After reading about the 9,000 year old submerged city off the coast of India, I'm looking differently at new discoveries like the Bosnian pyramid, but I still have problems with Osmanagic's reasoning.
[SNIP]
For the time being, that's the most that I can aspire to. Speaking of which, Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings arrived today. Looks great so far but I wish I knew more about cartography.

(Pardon my intermittent posting here, but I've worked 14 days in a row now and still counting...)

H Tojen

That date for the submerged city comes from one of the 2 C14 dates from a piece of wood dredged up from the site. That piece of wood could have drifted there down the river, it could have gotten there any number of ways and has no secure relationship to any structures there. The outline of the structures matches the outline of Harappan structures, so that is probablyh a Harappan city/settlement, could be 4000 or so years old.

As for Hapgood, you need to take him with a large dose of salt. Especially when it comes to the Piri Re'is map. There seems to be no trace of his informant, but more importantly not only do we know now that Antarctica was uninhabitable at the time he thinks it was mapped, no one until recently has the techniques to know what Antarctica could look like under the ice.

The Piri Re'is map follows a not unusual convention of bending the land to fit the paper -- that's South America at the bottom, not Antarctica. There are 2 really good books on the map, one is in Turkish so I recommend The Piri Reis Map of 1513 by Gregory C. McIntosh

and these web sites:
http://www.intersurf.com/~chalcedony/wildside.html
(which discusses some other of Hapgood's claims)
http://www.ramtops.co.uk
http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/PiriRies.HTM
http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/Piri_Re'is_map
and for a translation of the text on the Piri Re'is map:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/piri/pirikey.htm

 

[DougWeller]

Aca, please tell me if the configuration of the Three pyramids matches the configuration of the three in Italy and the three in Egypt. (two in line and one a few degrees off that line)

The alignment of the three Egyptian pyramids is thought to be a representation of Orion's Belt (from its stellar configuration of 12,000 years ago). 2 of the pyramids are on a line and one is off-set by a specific amount of degrees. If you look at Orion's Belt in the sky at night you'll see the configurtion (slightly different alignment today)

You seem to be well informed about the VISOKO, Bosnia-Herzegovina stuctures so if you can find any information on this question it would be great. Thanks.

That alleged alignment is hotly contested, see various articles here:

http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Topics

 

[DougWeller]

My own belief is that, because pyramids were built all over the world (and there's proof of that), it must have been done under the influence of one rather prolific civilization. The method of building is different but the coordinates and positioning is always the same with the faces facing all four cardinal points of the compass.

Sorry, that's not true, pyramids in other parts of the world not only have different methods of construction but different coordinates/positioning, and different purposes.

 

[DougWeller]

Looks like Dr Aly Abd Barakat (an expert on Egyptian pyramids who we have discussed) thinks the large blocks on the face of the largest pyramidal hill in Visoko are a type of poured concrete... as we also suspected! God we're good


From the same blog as above: http://www.stuart-hall.com/blog/Bosnianpyramids

I've seen that statement too. I really hope Barakat didn't make that claim. I know Hawass doesn't think that the Egyptians built the pyramids with poured concrete blocks. (And we have the quarries in Egypt where the stone actually came from). If he did claim that, I've no respect for him. Mind you, he did confused sand dollar fossils for human fossils in the Sudan.

 

[DougWeller]

Carl, tere is a long text with more detailed info that i will try to translate into english. But, they say that the pyramids in Bosnia have the same configuration as the Cheops pyramid in Egypt...having said that there are tunnels under the pyramids with intersections which are alligned perferctly with east-west, north-south.

The length of all sides (from top, down) are "365" meters in length so creating an even-sided triangle with 60&186; on each angle - in other words there is a deviation on geographical north of 21' and that alligns the pyramid perfectly with the "North star" i don't know how that star is called in english but i am sure you know what i am talking about.

Carl, so far they have been compering them with the pyramids in Egypt so i really don't have much on the Italian pyramids...altough i searched!

Any evidence for that bit about the tunnels? The young archaeologist that was going to map them, Sead Pilav, tells me he worked there in May for 3 days and then left because he "realized that entire project was unprofessional and unserious".

 

[Aca]

Any evidence for that bit about the tunnels? The young archaeologist that was going to map them, Sead Pilav, tells me he worked there in May for 3 days and then left because he "realized that entire project was unprofessional and unserious".

Oh well, here at this site you can see the latest excavation pictures of the tunnels! You can also click on the previous links to see other great photos!

www.piramidasunca.ba

 

[DougWeller]

Oh well, here at this site you can see the latest excavation pictures of the tunnels! You can also click on the previous links to see other great photos!

www.piramidasunca.ba

There are definitely tunnels there, probably mining tunnels. I was questioning the perfect intersections.

 

[Aca]

There are definitely tunnels there, probably mining tunnels. I was questioning the perfect intersections.

Well the project is still at the very start! Even with all of this evidence they are still having a hard time convincing the skeptics and ignorants that at least "something" is there.

I am sure the tunnels will be mapped very soon and be available for us to see. Until then we can only wait and see!

BTW, i am not sure that any mining has ever been done under Visocica!

 

[quantumcarl]

That alleged alignment is hotly contested, see various articles here:

http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Topics

All the internet can do is point our interest in a direction where we can verify or de-bunk a claim... for ourselves. Opinion and vague references have no value toward verification.

As Aca is saying we have to give the Bosnians time to put their money where their mouth is. I hear there's a pyramid there... show me the pyramid... take as long as you like!

The attempts to deflate the energy surrounding the whole Valley of the Sun project are uncalled for.
Sam will, no doubt, do a good job of it, given the circumstances.....I don't see many other archaeologists sticking their neck out quite as far to verify their vision and their beliefs.

Just try to re-think the "alien connection" to the pyramids.

 

[quantumcarl]

Sorry, that's not true, pyramids in other parts of the world not only have different methods of construction but different coordinates/positioning, and different purposes.

Where is your reference for this claim?

 

[quantumcarl]

I've seen that statement too. I really hope Barakat didn't make that claim. I know Hawass doesn't think that the Egyptians built the pyramids with poured concrete blocks. (And we have the quarries in Egypt where the stone actually came from). If he did claim that, I've no respect for him. Mind you, he did confused sand dollar fossils for human fossils in the Sudan.

Hawass doesn't think? its concrete? you mean he's not sure? Where is your reference for these claims?

 

[quantumcarl]

Any evidence for that bit about the tunnels? The young archaeologist that was going to map them, Sead Pilav, tells me he worked there in May for 3 days and then left because he "realized that entire project was unprofessional and unserious".

What importance should we place on young Sead Pilav's complaints?

Thou doest protest too much... and to no end.

 

[quantumcarl]

All four sides of every major pyramid are aligned with the four cardinal points of the compass.

Giza Plateau: (Memphis)

Pyramids of Egypt, are very numerous, counting both great and small; but the most remarkable are the three Pyramids of Memphis, or, as they are now called, of Gheisa or Gize. They are square Pyramids, and the dimensions of the greatest of them, are 700 feet on each side of the base, and the oblique height or slant side the same; its base covers, or stands upon, nearly 11 acres of ground. It is thought by some that these Pyramids were designed and used as gnomons, for astronomical purposes; and it is remarkable that their four sides are accurately in the direction of the four cardinal points of the compass, east, west, north, and south.

From: http://archimedes.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/cgi-bin/toc/toc.cgi?page=1011;dir=hutto_dicti_078_en_1795;step=textonly

Teotihuacan:

It is believed that when this city was inhabited the Pyramid of the Sun was covered with stucco, with each one of the four sides painted in a different color. Since in reality the name of Pyramid of the Sun was given when it was already in ruins, the theory has emerged that it was not dedicated to the sun but to the six cardinal points. The Earth on the platform, one side for each of the same as ours four cardinal points and the sixth side, the top, points to space.

From: http://www.caminandosinrumbo.com/mexico/teotihuacan/sole.htm

China:

The relationship between monuments and
settings before modern times.

Before modern times, monuments had usually much
greater size than other buildings and made profound impacts
on surrounding landscapes. Especially, the impacts of
large-scale monuments of the early civilizations, like
Pyramid in Egypt, Ziggurat in Mesopotamia, and Imperial
mausoleum in ancient China, were most impressive and
dramatic. First of all, this enormousness of impact on
surroundings made them monument.

But their impacts on surroundings were not at all one-way
relationship. The monuments themselves were obliged to
follow the principles which were considered to be inherent
in their surroundings. We find several kinds of such principle
in the history of city and architecture.

The most definite example is the layout of monument
depending on absolute orientations. Four sides of (China's)
Pyramid are running along the compass directions. Four corners of
Ziggurat direct cardinal points. It seems the people in the
ancient Near East believed their monuments were assured of
permanence by following the perpetual principle in the
universe's.

From: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...mid+cardinal+points&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=20

Italy:
And, of course you can go back to Tojen's post that links us to the Italian pyramid that holds a similar alignment to the Giza Plateau pyramids including aligning to the Cardinal Points.

Bosnia:
Not to mention the claimed and acclaimed Bosnian Pyramids which also fall in with the alignment of the cardinal points.

PS. Doug Weller, are you related to Diggs Downers or Spade Trenchler, or possibly Dee P. Shovler?

 

[Evo]

Ok, no more mystical mumbo jumbo.

Discussion will be limited to the "investigation" of if this is a man made or natural structure or combination of the two. PERIOD.

 

[Evo]

Hawass doesn't think? its concrete? you mean he's not sure? Where is your reference for these claims?

You have completely misread what DougWeller said

I know Hawass doesn't think that the Egyptians built the pyramids with poured concrete blocks. (And we have the quarries in Egypt where the stone actually came from)

 

[Evo]

My dear professor, you have forgotten to include your "stop-the-project petition" link!

You have been warned about your posts, personal attacks and foul language are not allowed on this forum.

 

[Aca]

You have been warned about your posts, personal attacks and foul language are not allowed on this forum.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my post! It does not contain a foul language and it is not offensive in any way!

I am just telling the guy that he did not include the petition link...what's wrong with that?

 

[Evo]

I don't think there is anything wrong with my post! It does not contain a foul language and it is not offensive in any way!

I am just telling the guy that he did not include the petition link...what's wrong with that?

Read the rest of that post and the others you've made. A large number of your posts violate forum guidelines for language and personal attacks. If you don't stop these violations, you will end up banned.

 

[quantumcarl]

Ok, no more mystical mumbo jumbo.

Discussion will be limited to the "investigation" of if this is a man made or natural structure or combination of the two.

I agree whole-heartly.

I will also ask that people back up statements and claims with preferably more than one reference.

For instance, using the Bosnian Pyramid site for photos is great... but using it as a sole source of reference is lop-sided. References and confirmation of facts should come from: several publications and personal experiences.

Its all about the investigation. Please send (return) tickets to Bosnia!

 

[quantumcarl]

3,427 views

Aca, let's be on good behaviour here... we have a large audience (3,427 views since May) from around the world... or at the very least 2 or 3 of the United States... so.. let's be professional about it.

 

[Aca]

Aca, let's be on good behaviour here... we have a large audience (3,427 views since May) from around the world... or at the very least 2 or 3 of the United States... so.. let's be professional about it.

I agree Carl! I apologize for upseting the admin!

 

[quantumcarl]

News on the BPs from Sunday June 18/06

Check this latest news out:

Lets do a search on this guy: Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta, chairman of the Humanitarian University for the Multidisciplinary International Culture (Rome)

And this woman: Lamia el-Hadidi (Conservation Specialist, Egypt)

"A press conference held earlier today (Sunday) at the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon puts “beyond doubt” the existence of a pyramid at the site, says the Archeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun (APBPS).

"The Pljesevica Hill was previously named the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon by the APBPS Foundation. Experts from the Foundation have now revealed the discovery of a vertical wall that forms part of the Pyramid of The Moon.

"Lamia el-Hadidi (Conservation Specialist, Egypt) assumes that the wall forms part of a tomb belonging to the pyramid. She pointed out that the wall is clearly manmade, comprising blocks that have been cut by man, refined and used to build this vertical wall.

"Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta, chairman of the Humanitarian University for the Multidisciplinary International Culture (Rome), announced that this evidence puts beyond doubt the existence of a true pyramid at this site.

June 18, 2006 From: http://www.stuart-hall.com/blog/Bosnianpyramids

I'll do a superficial one.

:Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta, chairman of the Humanitarian University for the Multidisciplinary International Culture (Rome)

This guy only shows up on Bosnian Pyramid related sites in google.

:Lamia el-Hadidi (Conservation Specialist, Egypt)

This extremely beautiful woman is for real... here's one of some sites that refer to her work,

http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/about/staff_22.html

50% of the above article checks out. Also... judging from the photos of the P of the Moon... there are irrefutable evidences that point to man made, megalithic structures or a structure of that quality under the metre of dirt that covers the pyramidal hill.

That's my professional opinion so far. (note: is "beautiful woman" acceptable?)

One last opinion... if all the critics are so afraid of Sam destroying subsequent cultural evidence... rather than stop him... which they cannot do... they need to go there and get dirty and help do a proper investigation.

Get to it you self-proclaimed non-pseudoarchaeologists.

 

[Aca]

Check this latest news out:

Lets do a search on this guy: Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta, chairman of the Humanitarian University for the Multidisciplinary International Culture (Rome)

And this woman: Lamia el-Hadidi (Conservation Specialist, Egypt)





June 18, 2006 From: http://www.stuart-hall.com/blog/Bosnianpyramids

I'll do a superficial one.

:Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta, chairman of the Humanitarian University for the Multidisciplinary International Culture (Rome)

This guy only shows up on Bosnian Pyramid related sites in google.

:Lamia el-Hadidi (Conservation Specialist, Egypt)

This extremely beautiful woman is for real... here's one of some sites that refer to her work,

http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/about/staff_22.html

50% of the above article checks out. Also... judging from the photos of the P of the Moon... there are irrefutable evidences that point to man made, megalithic structures or a structure of that quality under the metre of dirt that covers the pyramidal hill.

That's my professional opinion so far. (note: is "beautiful woman" acceptable?)

One last opinion... if all the critics are so afraid of Sam destroying subsequent cultural evidence... rather than stop him... which they cannot do... they need to go there and get dirty and help do a proper investigation.

Get to it you self-proclaimed non-pseudoarchaeologists.

Carl, there is no subsequent cultural evidence on the pyramid of the moon! The hill is called Pljesavica but sits right next to Visocica. The ancient Bosnian city sits on top of Visocica, which was named pyramid of the sun.

So actually the "real" Bosnian archelogists have nothing to complain about. The Pljesavica does not hold any protected archelogical sites so the work can continue without worries and interuptions!

But Carl, they will never go there! They cannot accept the fact that an amateur has made such a huge discover by himself and he never went to their office and begged for their opinion or permission to go on about the pyramids! And yes! She is beutiful:!) :!) :!) :!) I want to go to Bosnia again so i can meet her!

Dr. Lovrenovic has made a public debute in which he promised if there really is a pyramid he will burn himself.

But i don't believe that man stands strongly behind his promises.

 

[nesoxy]

"Others fear that Osmanagic's excavations will damage real sites (the hill he calls the "Pyramid of the Sun" is said to have medieval, Roman, and Illyrian remains on it). In one of the few critical accounts of the Bosnian pyramid story, which appeared in the Art Newspaper, the University of Sarejevo's Enver Imamovic, a former director of the National Museum in Sarjevo, is quoted as saying, "This is the equivalent of letting me, an archaeologist, perform surgery in hospitals."

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/index.html

 

[Tojen]

The president of the European Association of Archaeologists said on Friday that he had visited the 700-foot (213-meter) hill and saw no evidence that it was human-made. Speaking at a press conference in Sarajevo, Anthony Harding told reporters the pyramid-shaped hill was a natural phenomenon.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060613-pyramid.html

The story doesn't take into account Osmanagic's claim that it isn't a pyramid built from scratch, but a hill that was shaped into a pyramid and covered with rocks or slabs, nor does it address the obviously human elements found so far. Anthony Harding struck me as the direct opposite of Osmanagic, who before he even started digging had decided that they are indeed pyramids and even named them. The truth is somehwhere in between, I suppose.

 

[Tojen]

That date for the submerged city comes from one of the 2 C14 dates from a piece of wood dredged up from the site. That piece of wood could have drifted there down the river, it could have gotten there any number of ways and has no secure relationship to any structures there. The outline of the structures matches the outline of Harappan structures, so that is probablyh a Harappan city/settlement, could be 4000 or so years old.

As for Hapgood, you need to take him with a large dose of salt. Especially when it comes to the Piri Re'is map. There seems to be no trace of his informant, but more importantly not only do we know now that Antarctica was uninhabitable at the time he thinks it was mapped, no one until recently has the techniques to know what Antarctica could look like under the ice.

The Piri Re'is map follows a not unusual convention of bending the land to fit the paper -- that's South America at the bottom, not Antarctica. There are 2 really good books on the map, one is in Turkish so I recommend The Piri Reis Map of 1513 by Gregory C. McIntosh[/url]

Not just a piece of wood, according to this BBC page...

Debris recovered from the site - including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture and human bones and teeth - has been carbon dated and found to be nearly 9,500 years old.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1768109.stm

With all those artifacts, why would they only date a piece of wood that couldn't be associated with the ruins? Also, what about the site's location at 120 feet below the ocean surface? And others in the Mediterranean, the Carribean, the Black Sea, etc. It could be an ancient Harappan city, but I doubt it's only 4,000 years old, since geologists say sea levels haven't changed much in 6,000 years.

The evidence seems to be mounting that there were civilizations before Mesopotamia, before the last glaciation ended. Whether or not one of them was called Atlantis is immaterial, to me, and there was certainly no need for alien intervention. I think we probably haven't given our ancient ancestors enough credit.

I'm not sold on the Piri Reis map, especially the supposed Antarctic coast, as you said. But the South American coast is more accurate than the Europeans seemed capable of producing, while the Carribean and North America, which Columbus et al were most familiar with, are an indistinguishable mess. To me, that's the big puzzle of the map.

(edit): Maybe you know more about the archaeological dig on this page that I posted earlier in this thread. It is suspiciously close to the Bosnian pyramid site, but I haven't been able to find out any more info on it, either pro or con. ( http://s8int.com/sophis1.html )

Aca said:

Well, ofcourse it's tasteless for you!

Now you're "just provoking".

 

[quantumcarl]

Maybe you know more about the archaeological dig on this page that I posted earlier in this thread. It is suspiciously close to the Bosnian pyramid site, but I haven't been able to find out any more info on it, either pro or con. ( http://s8int.com/sophis1.html )

The site you've referenced arrives at questionable conclusions based on scanty evidence.

There are the photos of the dwelling foundations (poured cement with river rock aggregate taken in "1965 by archaeologist Dragoslav Srejovic at a site now called Starveco, on the Danube River, on the Yugoslavian and Rumanian border". The photos from this article show a rock formation and texture that are reminsicent of the type of rock in the photos of what is claimed to be a facing on the pyramid of the Sun" not too far away in Bosnia.

The pattern of river rock mix with a concrete is echoed in how the floor of the dwellings has been prepared. The river rocks on the top side of the cement slabs have been removed. This assists in seeing the conglomerate nature of the rock or cement while viewing it in such a low resolution.

 

[Tojen]

The only other info I can find on it is in a table outlining "Empires, Cultures and Civilizations":

Serbia Starcevo I, II -- Start: -5500 bce End: -4800 bce Chalolithic

Serbia Starveco III -- Start: -4800 bce End: -4100 bce

http://www.nexialinstitute.com/700_yr_~.htm
​

I can find no info on Dragoslav Srejovic except his membership in a few archaeological organizations.

The site you've referenced arrives at questionable conclusions based on scanty evidence.

Yes, the website is questionable, but I assume the evidence and conclusions were the archaeologist's, not the webmaster's, but I shall speak no more of it.

 

[quantumcarl]

The only other info I can find on it is in a table outlining "Empires, Cultures and Civilizations":

Serbia Starcevo I, II -- Start: -5500 bce End: -4800 bce Chalolithic

Serbia Starveco III -- Start: -4800 bce End: -4100 bce

http://www.nexialinstitute.com/700_yr_~.htm
​

I can find no info on Dragoslav Srejovic except his membership in a few archaeological organizations.



Yes, the website is questionable, but I assume the evidence and conclusions were the archaeologist's, not the webmaster's, but I shall speak no more of it.

Speak away! I'm just giving my impression of the site.

It seems indiscriminant about the articles it posts. The only consistency is that each article makes a broad claim without the backup of opinions from other camps or follow up as to where we can find the artifacts today.

For instance there's no way to verify any of it. As is the case with the Bosnian site.

We have to go there physically to determine for ourselves if its natural geology or modified geology or entirely man-made.

Even after doing so I would never consider spreading my opinion of the site and its excavator around on the internet or wherever. That amounts to slander or to unbridaled marketing.

The Bosnian Pyramids are what they are... when they're completely uncovered and when there is no question with regard to the structure etc... it will speak for itself.

Let the Visoko hills speak for themselves!

The fact that you were able to find other mention of the Serbia Starcevo site is encouraging. It was an old excavation (1965) so most of the records have long been religated to filing cabinets and the evidence stored in the same warehouse as Indiana Jones' Arc of the Covenant!

Most of the artifacts, summer camps and villages I've unearthed over a 12 year period will never see the light of a halogen bulb in the Anthropology Museum.

The evidence is in drawers and packing crates. My notes are nowhere to be found and my reports from excavations and surveys are in the basement of one or more Government Buildings. I suppose one can physically have them released for inspection... I've never tried. Why bother. I wrote the blo*dy things!

 

[Tojen]

I first brought up the Starveco site because the main objection to Osmanagic's claims from the pros is that there was no one at the time who could have built a pyramid, as in...

“This is total nonsense. It’s impossible. There was no high culture in this region at that time capable of building something on this scale,” said Professor Enver Imamovic, a respected archeologist from Sarajevo.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2135223,00.html

Starveco, if it's legitimate, might refute that, especially if it involves the use of concrete in construction and triangles in its layout. I wonder if the pros are even aware of it. I brought it up again in case Doug Weller might know something about it. But for the time being it will just have to simmer on the back burner, I guess.

I get the feeling that there needs to be a central clearing house for all the work that's been done and is being done in archaeology (if for no other reason than to make it easier for curiosity seekers like me ). There's so-o-o much out there, but digging it up is sometimes like looking for Clovis points in Asia. Quantumcarl wants a report on his West Coast digs? Click, there it is. Want the straight poop on the Starveco site? Click, there it is.

I also want to fly to the moon with Susan Sarandon. The chances of either happening are about the same.

 

[quantumcarl]

I first brought up the Starveco site because the main objection to Osmanagic's claims from the pros is that there was no one at the time who could have built a pyramid, as in...



Starveco, if it's legitimate, might refute that, especially if it involves the use of concrete in construction and triangles in its layout. I wonder if the pros are even aware of it. I brought it up again in case Doug Weller might know something about it. But for the time being it will just have to simmer on the back burner, I guess.

I get the feeling that there needs to be a central clearing house for all the work that's been done and is being done in archaeology (if for no other reason than to make it easier for curiosity seekers like me ). There's so-o-o much out there, but digging it up is sometimes like looking for Clovis points in Asia. Quantumcarl wants a report on his West Coast digs? Click, there it is. Want the straight poop on the Starveco site? Click, there it is.

I also want to fly to the moon with Susan Sarandon. The chances of either happening are about the same.

Susan likes to stay within the gravitational norm but Paris Hilton is available:!) .

Straight poop about anything is something that will be hard to find in this day and age of misinformation. The truth is really only going to be apparent with direct, personal contact with the sites. A central clearing house of cheap airline tickets to all of the museums and archaeological sites in the world for the global citizenery might work better. Education will produce a very happy, wealthy and healthy population. What could possibly be better?

A central clearing house of all the records and evidence from most of the archaeological sites ever investigated would be too easily sabotoged by organized religion or political/facist parties etc... look at what the Taliban did to some very ancient sites in Afganistan... blew em up real good. Look what happened during or right after the big "shock and awe" campaign in Bagdad's national museum... what is considered evidence of the "first civilizations" was totally looted like TVs from an electronics store on a dark day in July.

As you say, Starveco offers support for Sam's claim... if its legitimate. I don't see why it would be anything else. Its from 1965 when misinformation was just a fledgling science.

 

[quantumcarl]

Butterflies and Bunnyrabbits: BBC Newsletter

There was a pole done on one of those sites that has a black background... which is a signature of all the whacked-out-pseudoconspiritus-sanctum-sacred sites... this pole, mind you, is really just another consensus done with these three questions in mind

Is the alleged Bosnian Pyramid...

Completely man-made? :: 35% (204 votes)

Augmented by humans? :: 43% (250 votes)

A mountain? :: 21% (124 votes)

(Total votes: 578)

(Submitted by Greg on Sat, 20/05/2006 - 6:17am)

(sampling may be in error by 99% because 578 whacked-out conspiracy nuts responded to this specific pole... on the other hand, what sampling isn't whacked-out by a prejudiced responder?)

http://www.dailygrail.com/node/3058/results

___________________________________________________________________

I've found a documentary on the Bosnian Pyramid, its in two parts.
You can watch it in Quicktime or WMV.

The Documentaries have some prayer chanting or something over the intro that comes from the region in Bosnia. It is beautiful and feels Egyptian or Arabic in nature...

I guess the area has had its influences.

Here's where to see the documentaries from the BBC Newletter:

http://www.butterfliesandbunnyrabbits.com/qt_visoko.html

____________________________________________________________________

And as a supplement I've found the travelog of Alex Hunger who traveled through Croatia and parts of Bosnia. He gives a detailed description of the megalithic sites throughout the district and a history of the area that goes back to the last ice-age. The detail of his knowledge to do with the structures in the region is very informative.

Pradhulje Tumulus
submitted by AlexHunger

In my nine day stay in Croatia, I arrived in Zagreb and drove 1715km to my point of departure in Dubrovnik through most of Eastern Croatia and parts of Bosnia. During this time I was able to see more than a dozen hillforts, dozens of tumuli, one stone circle and innumerable Roman remains. As I went I was taking GPS readings and photographing for the Portal, so read the first online guide to these sites.

Here's where to read Alex Hunger's full description of his travels:

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146412186