What does it mean: "up to total derivatives"

In summary: This is the basic idea of the AdS/CFT correspondence, which states that string theory on AdS is equivalent to conformal field theory on the boundary. In summary, during a lecture on superfluid, the concept of "up to total derivatives" was introduced. This means that any difference between two terms in an expression is a derivative of some function. In terms of differential forms, it is an exact form. This can be converted into a boundary integral using Stokes' theorem. In classical fields, this does not affect the equation of motion due to fixing boundary conditions, while in quantum fields it can be absorbed into path integral measures. However, it is still necessary to consider the behavior of fields at far distances and impose boundary conditions. In the
  • #1
Ken Gallock
30
0
Hi.
I don't understand the meaning of "up to total derivatives".

It was used during a lecture on superfluid. It says as follows:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Lagrangian for complex scalar field ##\phi## is
$$
\mathcal{L}=\frac12 (\partial_\mu \phi)^* \partial^\mu \phi - \frac12 m^2 |\phi|^2 -\lambda |\phi|^4.
$$
Take non-relativistic limit:
$$
\phi(x)=\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2m}}e^{-imt}\varphi(t,x).
$$
Then, lagrangian for non-relativistic complex scalar field ##\mathcal{L}_{NR}## can be written as follows:
$$
\mathcal{L}_{NR}=\partial_t\phi^* \partial_t \phi - \nabla \phi^* \cdot \nabla \phi - m^2|\phi|^2 -\lambda|\phi|^4\\
=\dfrac{1}{2m}(im\varphi^*+\dot{\varphi}^*)(-im\varphi+\dot{\varphi})-\dfrac{1}{2m}\nabla\varphi^*\cdot \nabla \varphi -\dfrac{m}{2}|\varphi|^2-\dfrac{\lambda}{4m^2}|\varphi|^4.
$$
In non-relativistic limit,
$$
\partial_t\sim \nabla^2,
$$
therefore, we only consider first order of ##\partial_t##.
$$
\mathcal{L}_{NR}=\dfrac{1}{2m}[im(-im)\varphi^*\varphi+im\varphi^*\dot{\varphi}-im\dot{\varphi}^*\varphi]-\dfrac{1}{2m}\nabla\varphi^*\cdot \nabla \varphi -\dfrac{m}{2}|\varphi|^2-\dfrac{\lambda}{4m^2}|\varphi|^4\\
\simeq \dfrac{i}{2}(\varphi^*\dot{\varphi}-\dot{\varphi}^*\varphi)-\dfrac{1}{2m}\nabla\varphi^*\cdot \nabla \varphi -\dfrac{\lambda}{4m^2}|\varphi|^4\\
$$
Now, up to total derivatives,
$$
\mathcal{L}_{NR}\simeq \dfrac{i}{2}(\varphi^*\dot{\varphi}-\dot{\varphi}^*\varphi)-\dfrac{1}{2m}\nabla\varphi^*\cdot \nabla \varphi -\dfrac{\lambda}{4m^2}|\varphi|^4\\
=\varphi^*\left( i\partial_t+\dfrac{\nabla^2}{2m} \right) \varphi -\dfrac{\lambda}{4m^2}|\varphi|^4.
$$
-----------------------------------------
I don't understand the last part of this. Drop total derivatives?
 
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  • #2
Any difference between the first expression and the final expression is a total derivative.
 
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  • #3
It means the difference between the terms is a derivative of some function. (e.g. In 3-D, the gradient of something.) In the language of differential forms, an exact form. The point is that the total derivative (or exact form) in the action could be converted into a boundary integral by Stokes' theorem (in 3-D the Gauss' theorem).

In classical fields, you do variational derivatives fixing the boundary conditions, so the boundary variation is zero and does not affect the equation of motion.

In quantum fields of many-body physics, you path integrate coherent states. In any case, it will only contribute as a constant factor and can be absorbed into path integral measures which is non-dynamical.
 
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  • #4
ZealScience said:
It means the difference between the terms is a derivative of some function. (e.g. In 3-D, the gradient of something.) In the language of differential forms, an exact form. The point is that the total derivative (or exact form) in the action could be converted into a boundary integral by Stokes' theorem (in 3-D the Gauss' theorem).

In classical fields, you do variational derivatives fixing the boundary conditions, so the boundary variation is zero and does not affect the equation of motion.

In quantum fields of many-body physics, you path integrate coherent states. In any case, it will only contribute as a constant factor and can be absorbed into path integral measures which is non-dynamical.

Thanks.
So, we don't have to think about fields at the far away like ##x^i \rightarrow \infty##.
And from Gauss' theorem, an integral can be calculated like:
$$
\int_M d^3x \partial_i X^i \sim \int_{\partial M}(d^2x)_i X^i = 0.
$$
 
  • #5
Well, we do have to think about it, because we need to impose boundary conditions. Mathematically, often it is said that fields have compact support on spacetime. This is not always the case though; think about (A)dS spaces and holography.
 
  • #6
haushofer said:
Well, we do have to think about it, because we need to impose boundary conditions. Mathematically, often it is said that fields have compact support on spacetime. This is not always the case though; think about (A)dS spaces and holography.
I'm not sure about holography, but do you mean that ##d##-dimension AdS spacetime's boundary is ##(d-1)##-dimension CFT spacetime?
 
  • #7
If you mean that the conformal boundary of AdS is Minkowski spacetime: yes.
 

What does it mean: "up to total derivatives"?

"Up to total derivatives" is a phrase commonly used in mathematics and physics to refer to a quantity or function being considered up to an additive constant or a term that is the total derivative of another term. In other words, when a function or quantity is said to be "up to total derivatives," it means that any terms that are the total derivative of other terms can be ignored or treated as a constant.

What is a total derivative?

A total derivative is a mathematical concept that describes the change in a function with respect to all of its independent variables. It takes into account not just the partial derivatives (which consider the change with respect to one variable at a time), but also any terms that are the total derivative of other terms. In other words, it considers the overall change of the function as a whole.

Why is "up to total derivatives" important?

"Up to total derivatives" is important because it allows mathematicians and scientists to simplify and manipulate equations in a more convenient way. By ignoring or treating total derivative terms as constants, complex equations can be simplified and solved more easily. It also allows for a more general and abstract understanding of mathematical concepts.

What is the difference between "up to total derivatives" and "modulo total derivatives"?

The phrases "up to total derivatives" and "modulo total derivatives" are often used interchangeably, but there is a subtle difference between the two. "Up to total derivatives" implies that the total derivative terms can be ignored or treated as constants, while "modulo total derivatives" means that the total derivative terms can be removed entirely from the equation. In other words, "modulo total derivatives" is a stronger condition than "up to total derivatives."

How is "up to total derivatives" used in practical applications?

"Up to total derivatives" is commonly used in physics, especially in the study of thermodynamics and fluid mechanics. It allows scientists to simplify equations and accurately model physical systems. It is also used in optimization problems, where the goal is to find the maximum or minimum value of a function, and the total derivative terms can be ignored in the process.

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