What were the consequences of Israel's attack on the Gaza Aid Flotilla?

[arildno]

In collecting literacy data, many countries estimate the number of literate people based on self-reported data. Some use educational attainment data as a proxy, but measures of school attendance or grade completion may differ. Because definitions and data collection methods vary across countries, literacy estimates should be used with caution.

There is no particular reason why there would be any clear-cut bias trend in the errors by those indicated sources of error you mention.


Thus, while the exact percentage rates are give&take figures, you'll have a hard time arguing that the TRUE relative ranking chart will differ very much from the one given above.

 

[magpies]

Are you joking? I'm pretty sure there is a reason to claim your literacy rates are higher then they actually are. Do you really believe 99% of the US is literate?

I highly doubt cuba has a higher literacy rate then every other country...

 

[ibnsos]

Are you joking? I'm pretty sure there is a reason to claim your literacy rates are higher then they actually are. Do you really believe 99% of the US is literate?

I highly doubt cuba has a higher literacy rate then every other country...

Do you have a source to back up this opinion?

Just curious, since I have no problem believing 99%+ of the US is literate. The only people I have ever met that weren't literate in English, were literate in their native tongue. Also, the thread on the spelling activists, on this site, claims 11 million Americans as being illliterate (less than the illegal immigrant population.)

 

[EnumaElish]

Why should people not despise thieves, and cultures organized in such a manner that the members cannot hold proper jobs within a modern society (i.e, nomadism)?

Some of your posts are making racist statements. This is one such post.

In this post you've made the racist claim "gypsy <==> thief." This one "betters" your previous claim "muslim ==> dangerous."

I am sure you are well aware, but seem to have chosen to ignore, the correlation between racism, anti-semitism, anti-homosexuality, etc. throughout human history and across a wide spectrum of cultures.

I thank you for another of your posts making the point about "the immorality of willful ignorance." I hope that you find the strength to face your own test, and that you don't see morality as another tactical stance for the sake of making/winning an argument.

 

[Evo]

Are you joking? I'm pretty sure there is a reason to claim your literacy rates are higher then they actually are. Do you really believe 99% of the US is literate?

I highly doubt cuba has a higher literacy rate then every other country...

I just verified it, Gaza Strip, literacy rate 92.4%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2103.html

 

[EnumaElish]

FROM : Infoshop News
Wednesday, March 31 2010 @ 10:29 PM UTC

...
On the other side of the capital, meanwhile, the extreme right party Jobbik held its own pre-election rally.
Party leader Gabor Vona greeted the crowd of thousands - many in combat trousers and boots - that filled some 200 metres of a broad avenue in the centre of the capital.
He opened with Jobbik's rallying cry 'God grant!' to which the crowd roared: 'A brighter future!'
Vona then won enthusiastic applause by deriding the leader of a Hungarian Roma council, who is currently under investigation for corruption.
A campaign against what Jobbik calls 'Gypsy crime' has been a key factor in the party's increasing support over recent years.
Hungary's Roma minority is thought to make up as much as 7 per cent of the population of 10 million.
The party's paramilitary Hungarian Guard, outlawed last summer by the courts, is believed to have played a key part of this campaign and the rise in profile of the Jobbik as a whole.
Jobbik polled almost 15 per cent nationwide in last year's European parliament elections, with support particularly strong in deprived rural areas of the country.
Corruption will be stamped out and politicians of all stripes will be held to account after the general election, Vona told the crowd.
The Jobbik leader, flanked by two militaristic guards, also called for independence from 'Washington, Brussels, Tel Aviv' and other powers that would seek to control Hungary.

http://lolodiklo.blogspot.com/2010/03/jobbik-shared-oppression-jews-and.html

 

[Geigerclick]

You're welcome!

By the way, Geigerclick, in another thread we have reached a quandary as to the relative percentages of Ashkenazis and Sephardim/Mizrahi in Israel.

According to my wiki-source, there is a slight majority of Mizrahis among the Jews in Israel, while the other states there is a majority of Ashkenazis.

Presuming you're from Israel, do you have any more reliable figures than wiki-sources on this issue?

I'm not from Israel, so I can't help you there. I've lived in Israel for a while, but I don't think it makes me better than wiki, sadly.

 

[magpies]

So then evo you agree cuba in general is a more literate place then the US right? Cause that's what your link says.

 

[lisab]

A strong central government that can require its citizens to do pretty much anything, vs. a much larger country that includes hillbillies? I love the USA, but yeah, I can believe it.

Yep, I believe it too. I used to work as a clerk in a 7-11, dealing with the general public - not the University crowd most PFers rub shoulders with. Many people couldn't fill out the slip to rent a video. Very sad.

 

[magpies]

Ya that was kinda what I was thinking when it says 99% literacy for the US... I don't even know why I am making a deal out of this my point was just that the stats the guy showed arn't 100% great...

 

[EnumaElish]

I've seen how Muslims who live in a manner we'd probably consider moderate, but they still have to wear several faces to do it. This cannot be easy, this implicit dissonance. By definition, Islam is meant to be a fundamentalist religion, not parable.

I cannot imagine that fitting into this stereotype of "schizo muslim" is any easier than fitting into the one about the "self-hating jew."

 

[Werg22]

So then evo you agree cuba in general is a more literate place then the US right? Cause that's what your link says.

All the Cubans I've met were very educated.

 

[Phrak]

Well, Hanoi WAS pretty successfull against the US government, no?

So you have a small part in the propaganda war. How many do you think you are successful with here?

 

[tiny-tim]

literacy rates

I don't find that surprising at all, given that reading the Qur'an is a major tenet of Islam, much as reading the Torah is for Judaism. Hard to read your Scripture and more if you can't read at all. I can't say for certain that this is a factor, but if you subscribe to a strict oral tradition, then you are probably less likely to require literacy as a society.

Yes, but Egypt Algeria Morocco and Yemen are also Muslim countries, and …

Literacy rates:

…17. Egypt: 71.4%
18. Algeria: 69.9%
19. Morocco: 52.3%
20. Yemen: 50.2

Compiled from indexmundi

… are they any less religious (more "Westernised") than the West Bank?

A strong central government that can require its citizens to do pretty much anything, vs. a much larger country that includes hillbillies? I love the USA, but yeah, I can believe it.

(that's Cuba)

All the Cubans I've met were very educated.

I think it's simply because in Cuba the best teachers are in state schools (because there are no other schools), but in the USA the worst teachers are in state schools.

(I'll guess that health standards are higher in Cuba also, for the same reason. )

 

[arildno]

Some of your posts are making racist statements. This is one such post.

Why?

PROVE IT!

 

[Phrak]

This one "betters" your previous claim "muslim ==> dangerous."...

Help me out. The world governed by Islamic law is called "sharia". The part of the world without Islamic law translates to "the world of war." I've forgotten the word. And why is it called the world of war?

 

[eruera]

When a people are in a desperate state of survival, yes risks will be taken.
The families of people that died in that confrontation will not only have to deal with their greif but they also have to deal with the why it happened.
Blame goes both ways in this instance.
Why didn't the Israeli's use Warships, to fire across the bow of this ship.
No one would have died, people on the ship would almost certainly know the next one would sink them.
Why use commandos in a situation they knew was going to be a confrontation?
Seems as long as the other guy dies its ok? Not in the eyes of the rest of the world

 

[eruera]

The Israeli's are acting toward the people of Gaza as the Nazi's did to the Jews or have they forgotten.
I don't know why you all can't forget your race, religion and politics for the sake of peace.

Medical and food supplies for people is not an attack on israel or its interests.

 

[Phrak]

The Israeli's are acting toward the people of Gaza as the Nazi's did to the Jews or have they forgotten.
I don't know why you all can't forget your race, religion and politics for the sake of peace.

Medical and food supplies for people is not an attack on israel or its interests.

I think you should watch the accuations, bubu.

 

[tiny-tim]

Israelis = Nazis?

The Israeli's are acting toward the people of Gaza as the Nazi's did to the Jews or have they forgotten.

Goodness, I didn't know that! That's appalling!

So you're saying that the Israelis are …

• forcing the Gazans to wear yellow crescents
• forbidding the Gazans to drive cars, ride bikes, go into parks or swimming pools
• forbidding the Gazans to attend universities
• rounding up the Gazans and forcing them to live in ghettos where they've never lived before
• burning down all their places of worship
• marching them into forests, forcing them to dig their own graves, and then shooting them so that they fall in ready for burial
• deporting them to work camps where life expectation is about three months
• deporting them to extermination camps where life expectation is about three hours
• killing about a third of them, and trying to kill more

It's a good job you drew this to our attention , or I wouldn't have believed it!

 

[Phrak]

You must tell me how you manage to keep your sense of humor, Tiny. --in the face of so much murderous deceit.

 

[arildno]

The Israeli's are acting toward the people of Gaza as the Nazi's did to the Jews or have they forgotten.

Hmm..perhaps they haven't forgotten the typical treatment of them within Dar-al-Islam?

The writer Sir Arthur de Capell Brooke published in 1831 his book "Sketches of Spain and Morocco", where he has a nice chapter on the treatment of Jews living in Morocco:

Treatment of the Jews by the Moors.

The Barbary Jews are, in every sense of the word,
complete slaves to the Moors. They are obliged to
wear a particular costume to distinguish them from
the Mahometans, and can on no account wear a red
cap or yellow slippers, the same as the Moors. If they
should be bold enough to do so, a very severe punish-
ment would be the consequence. Neither are they
permitted to adopt the European costume without
eqpecial leave from the sultan himself, which is
sometimes granted as a matter of very great favour.
The Jews wear a black skull-cap on their head,
and black slippers : the latter they are compelled to
take off when they come within ten yards of a mosque
or sanctuary, and to proceed barefooted by it. No ex-
ception is made to this regulation, whatever may be
the wealth and consequence of the individual, or the
state of the weather and streets. The Jews through*
out the country are held in the greatest contempt by
all classes of the Mahometans. The Moorish boys,
who are usually extremely insolent, even to Christians,
treat the unfortunate Israelites with the greatest
effrontery and wanton cruelty, sensible as they are
that they will not be punished, and being encouraged
in this behaviour by their parents. I have, on more
than one occasion, seen a Moorish boy about ten years
of age step up to a Jew in the street, and, having
stopped him, kick, and slap him in the face, without his
venturing to lift up a hand and defend himself. Should
he dare to do so, his hand would be cut off, as being
raised against one of their true believers. The poor
man was obliged to content himself with crying out,
addressing his little persecutor at the same time by the
title of sidi^ or master, and supplicating him to let him
pass. As to the unfortunate Jew boys, they make their
appearance with fear and trembling where any Moorish
children may chance to be playing, being considered as
fair game, much in the same light as a dog, and are sure
to be well thumped and pelted. It is in consequence
of this system of persecution that the Jews of Tetuan
and some other towns — Fez, for instance — have a
separate quarter or town to themselves, the only com-
munication with the Moorish town being by gates,
which are shut at night. By these means they are very
much protected from the ill-treatment and insults of
the Moors, particularly on the sabbath, when they do
more as they please than on any other day, as no
Moor is then allowed to enter their quarter and molest
them.. Sometimes they depend so much on the security
they enjoy on their sabbath, that they venture now
and then to put on a hat of European make, although
subject to the risk of being reported to the governor,
and either heavily fined or receiving the bastinado
for their infringement of the general regulation on this
head.

Whose behaviour corresponds best to the Nazi behaviour. Hmm?
Why do you think Hitler was so admiring of, precisely..Islam?
Source:
http://www.archive.org/stream/sketchesinspain01broogoog#page/n357/mode/2up

I don't know why you all can't forget your race, religion and politics for the sake of peace.

Because a shameful peace is equivalent to slavery, and should be opposed.

 

[eruera]

To use Nazi's as a comparison was a mistake to which I humbly apologise.
I am just disgusted with the heavy handed tactics which cost lives when a shot across the bow would have avoided loss of any life.
We had one of our own people on that ship. The Commandos defended themselves and the people on the ship defended themselves.
The ones that died were which ones? The ones without the guns. To be expected.

 

[arildno]

To use Nazi's as a comparison was a mistake to which I humbly apologise.

No, it was not a "mistake".
In your private life, you have several times already made that accusation, and getting applause for it, and thought nothing of spewing out your slime on these forums as well.

It is only because you met moral opposition here, that you suddenly feel your statement reflects "badly" on you.

Of course it does, but your glib apology doesn't make you look any better.

 

[arildno]

The following Reuter article quite clearly shows the level of PREPARATION for violent confrontation among the "peaceful" activists:

Andre Abu Khalil, a Lebanese cameraman for Al Jazeera TV, gave an account that backed some of what both sides have said.

In his telling, activists initially wounded and captured four Israelis from a first wave that boarded the ship. A second wave of troops tried to storm the ship after the four were taken below decks.

"Twenty Turkish men formed a human shield to prevent the Israeli soldiers from scaling the ship. They had slingshots, water pipes and sticks," he said. "They were banging the pipes on the side of the ship to warn the Israelis not to get closer."

After a 10-minute standoff the Israelis opened fire.

"One man got a direct hit to the head and another one was shot in the neck," he said. In all he saw some 40 people wounded, some to the legs, eye, stomach and chest.

One activist used a loudhailer to tell the Israelis the four captive soldiers were well and would be released if they provided medical help for the wounded activists. With an Israeli Arab lawmaker acting as mediator, the Israelis agreed. Wounded were brought to the deck and were airlifted off the ship.

Israel says its troops fired only after some of their weapons had been seized by activists, who fired first.

"Once the soldiers saw knives, metal rods, chains, broken bottles, and they were shot at, they shot back and killed nine of them," Israeli military spokesman Captain Ayre Shalicar said.

Of course, Reuters tries to be politically correct, and says that this backs up "both sides" ' contradictory claims.

It does not.

It solely backs up the story given by the Israelis, the activists themselves proven to be the liars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6522P520100603

 

[eruera]

Hmm..perhaps they haven't forgotten the typical treatment of them within Dar-al-Islam?

The writer Sir Arthur de Capell Brooke published in 1831 his book "Sketches of Spain and Morocco", where he has a nice chapter on the treatment of Jews living there:


Whose behaviour corresponds best to the Nazi behaviour. Hmm?
Why do you think Hitler was so admiring of, precisely..Islam?
Source:
http://www.archive.org/stream/sketchesinspain01broogoog#page/n357/mode/2up


Because a shameful peace is equivalent to slavery, and should be opposed.

Slime. What slime.
Moral Opposition? I think biased
I have accepted your opinion and my reference was a means to view aggression as a pathetic excuse. By both sides in this issue but will reiterate the ones without the guns died!
How many died from sticks and pipes?
Guess what? Turkey has guns too. Would they be in their rights to retaliate? Thats how expansive such an action as that on that ship.
Stop the blockaid and leave the Gazans alone.

 

[arildno]

Why do you think that the side who killed necessarily was the side that was in the wrong here?

 

[estro]

The Israeli's are acting toward the people of Gaza as the Nazi's did to the Jews or have they forgotten.
I don't know why you all can't forget your race, religion and politics for the sake of peace.

Medical and food supplies for people is not an attack on israel or its interests.

Another chit chat lover, without any idea of what he talking about...

 

[Borg]

eruera, you haven't even been here one day and you're spewing ill-conceived opinions on several threads. This is a scientific forum where people provide proof of their opinions with things like scientific data or links to back up their statements. Please review the rules link at the top of the page.

 

[arildno]

I just verified it, Gaza Strip, literacy rate 92.4%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2103.html

OOPS! REDUNDANCY ALERT!

The Indexmundi website relies mainly upon the CIA World Factbook for its stats, sorry for not making that clear from the outset.

 

[arildno]

The Quran is to be learned by heart, by memorizing its intonations and exact wordings. That is not the same as developing literacy.

Only the Maltese, and West Saharans, have archaic Arab languages in which the Quran's language is familiar speech.

While I, as a Norwegian, have a hazy, intuitive semi-understanding of Old Norse, it is only Scandinavians of Icelandic or Føreyar background whose present day language is close enough to Old Norse to understand it fully, without special study.

Same with most present-day speakers of Arabic, I think, with the exception of the two groups mentioned.

 

[arildno]

In the following gloating photo series, the Turkish newspaper Hurryiet shows what happened to..Israeli soldiers on board of the Mira Marmara.
This is, incidentally, proof, that the first wave of Israeli soldiers were OVERPOWERED by the crew, and beaten up (without crowbars??)
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/g.php?p=1&g=55#gallerytop

Thus, the IDF is proven right that they did begin to shoot, on account of--self-defence against a violent mob.

Once again, accidentally, the supporters of the "peace activists" are on the wrong side of truth.

 

[arildno]

Scandinavian languages make my brain hurt.

Hurt??
Listen to our national anthem for a couple of minutes:

 

[arildno]

I wonder when the nations that condemned Israel will offer retractions? I'm guessing, never, especially from the Turks, who still need to admit that whole "Armenian Genocide" bit.

Nor have they apologized for the "Bulgarian Horrors" of 1876, the numerous massacres of Greeks in, for example, the Orlov Revolt in 1770, nor for the imposition of the child tax, devshirme, on their Christian subject population and on and on and on.

Obviously, no present living Turk is responsible for the evils of earlier times, but he is most definitely morally obliged to condemn his fore-fathers' evil conduct.

 

[estro]

In the following gloating photo series, the Turkish newspaper Hurryiet shows what happened to..Israeli soldiers on board of the Mira Marmara.
This is, incidentally, proof, that the first wave of Israeli soldiers were OVERPOWERED by the crew, and beaten up (without crowbars??)
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/g.php?p=1&g=55#gallerytop

Thus, the IDF is proven right that they did begin to shoot, on account of--self-defence against a violent mob.

Once again, accidentally, the supporters of the "peace activists" are on the wrong side of truth.

I'm AMAZED how after these picture some can still condemn Israel.
These chilling pictures made me remember the Ramallah lynching...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching

The Palestinian people (and their faith brothers) have hatred deeply rooted within their hearts. This hatred sometimes make them forget they are human beings...
And thus I think we (Israel) and our wild neighbors will never reach peace, at least as long as Muslim radicals will walk the Earth as Muslim integers.
I fear the only solution is making them imaginary...