Why can't a chain rule exist for integration?

In summary, the conversation discusses the methods of integration and their limitations, with a focus on the implicit function theorem and its connection to nested functions. The conversation also touches on the idea of using the inverse of the chain rule to find integrals.
  • #1
Prem1998
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I was thinking if the known methods of integration are enough to integrate any given function. In differentiation, we've evaluated the derivatives of all the basic functions by first principles and then we have the chain rule and product rule to differentiate any possible combination (product or composition) of those basic functions.
But, in integration, if I need to integrate something like sin(x^3)*log(sin(e^(x2)) or something more complicated then all of the methods ,like substitution or integration by parts,will be of no use.
Isn't a more direct method like something similar to the chain rule required for integration?
 
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  • #2
  • #4
BvU said:
All I can think of is partial integration .
I don't think we will ever be able to integrate the function I've written #1 using partial integration. And, there are even more complicated ones.
 
  • #5
fresh_42 said:
The "product rule" for integration is called integration by parts.
The "chain rule" for integration is in a way the implicit function theorem.
Integration by parts wouldn't be of much use in more complicated product functions because we have to integrate another product function after using it. It isn't in terms of the anti-derivatives of the original function.
I looked up implicit function theorem. It was about describing the graph of a relation, which is not a function, by two or more functions. How does it help in integrating something like e^(sqrt(tan(log(arcsin(sqrt(x))))? Differentiating it is kid's stuff but integrating it is quite stressful.
 
  • #6
Well in the end, my math teacher at school has been right, as he said:
"Differentiation can be done by everyone, integration is an art."

However, the statement is a bit unfair, since for differentiation we rely on polynomials and a list of functions which we already calculated. But integrating polynomials or looking up lists can be done for integration, too. When sea becomes rough, we have to fall back on the definition by limits. In both cases. And in both cases it can be done this way.
 
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  • #7
Prem1998 said:
sin(x^3)*log(sin(e^(x2))
Since we're in a physics forum: I have seen very few of such pathological integrals (or ones like $$e^{\sqrt { \tan\left (\log\left (\arcsin\left (\sqrt x\right ) \right )\right ) } } $$ pass by in the textbooks I've used in my career.

Nor in practice: one resorts to numerical integration rather quickly (admittedly sometimes too quickly :smile:).
 
  • #8
I have found this link (university of TX) which might be helpful to see the connection between integration and the implicit function theorem:
https://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/sbutt/m427l-summer07/Imp-Func-Thm-Integration.pdf
 
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  • #9
BvU said:
Since we're in a physics forum: I have seen very few of such pathological integrals (or ones like $$e^{\sqrt { \tan\left (\log\left (\arcsin\left (\sqrt x\right ) \right )\right ) } } $$ ...
I dare to claim that it is equally pathological from a mathematical point of view. :smile:
 
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  • #10
fresh_42 said:
I dare to claim that it is equally pathological from a mathematical point of view. :smile:

but not so much from abnormally pathological psychological view :smile::smile:
 
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  • #11
fresh_42 said:
The "chain rule" for integration is in a way the implicit function theorem.
In what sense is the implicit function theorem a "chain rule for intregration"? The theorem doesn't say anything about integration.
Didn't you mean Integration by substitution?
 
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  • #12
Erland said:
In what sense is the implicit function theorem a "chain rule for intregration"? The theorem doesn't say anything about integration.
Didn't you mean Integration by substitution?
You're right, substitution is the direct counterpart of the chain rule. With the connection to implicit functions I meant more "how to deal with nested functions" as the chain rule also deals with nested functions and I therefore only referred to it as "in a way" to tone it down from a direct correspondence. Perhaps even this remark has been a little bit too optimistic, and I certainly wouldn't insist on it. It just automatically came to my mind when it's about to get a hand on nested functions (and I admit to have abused the question a little bit to emphasizes on the importance of this theorem :sorry:).
 
  • #13
When there is some transformation of a function that tells you its derivative (like xn → nxn-1), then since indefinite integration is almost the inverse of differentiation, that always tells you a corresponding rule for integration: Just go backwards. (So an antiderivative of nxn-1 is xn.) In general, of course, you have to add a constant when integrating, unless it's for a definite integral.

Therefore if the chain rule says that f(g(x)) → f'(g(x)⋅g'(x) under differentiation, then we know the integral of any expression of the form f'(g(x)⋅g'(x) is f(g(x)).

(Only slightly related puzzle: Given the function f(x) = 1/x defined for all x ≠ 0, find its indefinite integral.)
 

1. Why can't a chain rule exist for integration?

The chain rule is a rule in calculus that allows us to find the derivative of a composite function. However, integration is the inverse operation of differentiation, so it does not have a direct counterpart to the chain rule.

2. Can't we just use the chain rule in reverse for integration?

The chain rule is a one-to-one relationship between the derivative of a function and the derivative of its inverse. In integration, we are not dealing with inverses, so the chain rule cannot be applied in reverse.

3. What about using u-substitution as a replacement for the chain rule?

U-substitution is a technique used in integration that is often compared to the chain rule. However, u-substitution is not a direct replacement for the chain rule, as it is a specific method used to simplify integrals and does not apply to all integration problems.

4. Are there any other rules or methods that can be used instead of a chain rule for integration?

There are various other integration techniques such as integration by parts, trigonometric substitution, and partial fractions that can be used to solve integrals without the need for a chain rule.

5. Why is the concept of a chain rule for integration confusing?

The concept of a chain rule for integration can be confusing because it goes against our intuition of how inverse operations should work. Additionally, there is no direct counterpart to the chain rule in integration, so it can be difficult to find an equivalent approach.

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