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anbhadane
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I know that by extremizing lagrangian we get equations of motions. But what if we extremize the energy? I am just little bit of confused, any help is appreciated.
anbhadane said:I know that by extremizing lagrangian
so, basically we find first path and it automatically satisfies the minimum energy requirement?hilbert2 said:The Lagrangian is a quantity describing a whole trajectory between instants of time and . The energy is a property of a single instant .
sorry, I was saying action with energy as function.weirdoguy said:We extremize the action, not lagrangian.
Not the minimum energy as you say but the stationary action would be satisfied. As you know Lagrangean is kinetic energy ##\mathbf{-}## potential energy. How did you come to the idea that not Lagrangean but energy, i.e. kinetic energy ##\mathbf{+}## potential energy, should play some role in action principle ?anbhadane said:so, basically we find first path and it automatically satisfies the minimum energy requirement?
I know in action we use lagrangian which is T - V, but i am saying instead of T-V, can we use T+V? anyway it's function too.anuttarasammyak said:How did you come to the idea that not Lagrangean but energy, i.e. kinetic energy potential energy, should play some role in action principle ?
Can you see why minimising or maximising ##T + V## would not work? Imagine an object in a gravitational field.anbhadane said:I know in action we use lagrangian which is T - V, but i am saying instead of T-V, can we use T+V? anyway it's function too.
Lagrangian L = T - V = 2T - (T+V) = 2T - H as post #3 says. This expression of Lagrangian, i.e. integrand for action, using energy H ( and T ) might be of your interest.anbhadane said:I know in action we use lagrangian which is T - V, but i am saying instead of T-V, can we use T+V?
Thank you. Now I got it.PeroK said:Imagine an object in a gravitational field
Anyway I am now clear with my doubt. 2T - H is another form of L so basically it's the same as L. I was interested in only T + V. Thank you for your valuable responses.anuttarasammyak said:Lagrangian L = T - V = 2T - (T+V) = 2T - H as post #3 says
The answer is that Hamilton's variational principle in configuration space (i.e., the Lagrangian version of the principle) works with the Lagrangian ##L(q,\dot{q},t)=T-V##, i.e., it gives the correct equations of motion known from Newton's Laws.anbhadane said:I know in action we use lagrangian which is T - V, but i am saying instead of T-V, can we use T+V? anyway it's function too.
The Hamilton principle is used because it provides a more general and comprehensive approach to finding the equations of motion. It takes into account all possible paths that a system can take, not just the one that minimizes energy. This allows for a more accurate and complete understanding of the dynamics of a system.
The Hamilton principle states that the actual path taken by a system is the one that minimizes the action, which is the integral of the Lagrangian over time. This means that by extremizing the Lagrangian, we are essentially finding the path that minimizes the action, and therefore, satisfies the equations of motion.
The Lagrangian is a function that describes the dynamics of a system in terms of its position and velocity. It is the key component in the Hamilton principle as it allows us to determine the equations of motion by extremizing it. The Lagrangian takes into account both kinetic and potential energy, making it a more comprehensive approach than just considering energy alone.
Yes, the Hamilton principle can be applied to all physical systems, as long as they can be described by a Lagrangian. This includes classical mechanics, electromagnetism, and even quantum mechanics. The Hamilton principle provides a unified approach to understanding the dynamics of different systems.
The Hamilton principle is essentially an extension of the principle of least action. The principle of least action states that a system will follow the path that minimizes the action, which is the integral of the Lagrangian over time. The Hamilton principle takes this concept further by considering all possible paths and finding the one that minimizes the action, resulting in the equations of motion for the system.