Race across the Universe:Who is on edge? Force Vs. Light

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison of the speed of light and the concept of "speed of force," exploring whether one can be considered faster than the other. Participants delve into the implications of gravity on light's journey and the nature of forces in physics, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant recalls a personal anecdote about a child's question regarding the speed of light and force, suggesting a belief that there is a definitive answer to who is "winning."
  • Another participant questions the meaning of "speed of force," proposing that it could refer to how quickly one end of an object feels a shove, suggesting it moves at the speed of sound.
  • Several participants assert that nothing travels faster than the speed of light, with one emphasizing that this holds true in a vacuum.
  • Discussion includes the idea that light's journey could be influenced by gravity or curvature, likening it to a race between a rabbit and a turtle.
  • One participant clarifies that while light travels at the speed of light in a vacuum, it can be slowed in other mediums, such as water, where electrons can exceed the speed of light, leading to phenomena like Cherenkov radiation.
  • Another participant explains that force itself does not have a speed but that the propagation speed of different forces varies, with gravity and electromagnetism propagating at the speed of light, while the strong and weak forces may propagate slower due to their massive bosons.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the original question, suggesting a rephrasing that focuses on what exists at the boundary of the universe and whether gravity or radiation is felt there.
  • Some participants assert that there is no boundary to the universe, discussing its infinite nature or potential self-wrapping structure.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between space and the universe, with differing opinions on whether they are the same or distinct concepts.
  • One participant notes that the "speed of a force" is not well-defined, reiterating that a force is not an object.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the nature of speed in relation to force and light, with no consensus reached on the original question or the implications of gravity on light's speed. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationship between space and the universe.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in defining the "speed of force" and the implications of various forces, indicating that the discussion is complex and nuanced, with unresolved definitions and assumptions.

Reogl
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Hey there guys,
I remembered one stormy night while playing Atari racing game with my son..he asked me: "what is faster force of light?" I escaped with a reply .. "flash first..thunder later" .Suddenly the power was out. My kid went to fetch the flashlight and said to me.."look! push first ..flash later". I know those were naive notions, but seriously today i am certain there is an answer.
Who's winning?
thanks
 
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What do you mean by "speed of force?" Do you mean that you shove on one end of an object and count how long it will take for the other end to feel the force?

I'm pretty sure it'll move at the speed of sound under that definition, which is nowhere close to the speed of light.
 
In short, nothing travels faster than the speed of light.
Chris
 
Its like..what if the light journey is being affected by gravity (or curvature?) along the way.. classic sample is the rabbit-turtle race where the rabbit being confident have napped himself to perdition.
 
Reogl said:
Its like..what if the light journey is being affected by gravity (or curvature?) along the way.. classic sample is the rabbit-turtle race where the rabbit being confident have napped himself to perdition.

What is your point? What part of "nothing travels faster than light" do you not understand?
 
"nothing travels faster than light" in vacuum.
In water, for example, electrons can easily travel faster than light. This gives the blue glow in nuclear reactors (cherenkov radiation).
If you care about the total time from A to B, you can also consider a mirror system for light.

Anyway, your question is quite unclear.
 
I think the question is, "Which is faster, force or light?" Force doesn't really have a speed because it is not a thing, but an effect. However, force does have a speed of propagation, which depends on which force you are talking about. The force of gravity propagates at the speed of light. The force of electromagnetism propagates at the speed of light because propagating electromagnetic waves _is_ light. I think the strong force and weak force both propagate at slower than the speed of light because their associated bosons are massive.
 
Yeah, i mistook that speed comparison is the same as which ever is ahead on the edge of the Universe is faster.. i was tipped that the "speed of force" = c , the only difference therefore is which (light or force) have the head start, but since the light some how can be held back by force (GR) ,it would result to something else.. well thank you for reply

Rephrasing the Query : What is it there at the very boundary of our Universe? What we ought to feel gravity or radiation?
 
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There is no boundary to the universe, as far as we know. Either the universe is infinitely large, or the universe wraps around on itself. The universe did not start as a point.
 
  • #10
Khashishi said:
There is no boundary to the universe, as far as we know. Either the universe is infinitely large, or the universe wraps around on itself. The universe did not start as a point.

The SPACE is confirmed flat and open..but Universe is not Space
 
  • #11
Reogl said:
The SPACE is confirmed flat and open..but Universe is not Space

They are sort of one and the same, think about it for a while.

I don't understand your point/question though.
 
  • #12
Vorde said:
They are sort of one and the same, think about it for a while.

I don't understand your point/question though.

well..i don't like research work. i guess it will really take a while
I just try the similar threads below.
Thanks again
 
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  • #13
Khashishi said:
I think the strong force and weak force both propagate at slower than the speed of light because their associated bosons are massive.
Gluons (bosons of the strong interaction) are massless.

"Speed of a force" is simply not well-defined - a force is not an object.
"Speed of propagation of gravitational influence" is the speed of light.
 
  • #14
Reogl said:
well..i don't like research work. i guess it will really take a while
I just try the similar threads below.
Thanks again

If you're interested in astrophysics but you don't like "research work", you might want to browse through Wikipedia articles about the universe and space. They're usually suited for the general public and it would probably be less chaotic than sifting through random posts in the Phycics Forums.

Chris
 

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