Why does the physical state of a substance primarily depend on its temperature?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between temperature, pressure, and the physical state of substances, particularly focusing on why substances like water do not transition to solid states under certain conditions. Participants explore concepts related to phase transitions, the effects of pressure, and the definitions of solid and liquid states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that temperature reflects the energy associated with particles or molecules, questioning how this energy influences whether a substance is solid, liquid, or gas.
  • Others argue that pressure also plays a significant role in determining the state of a substance, referencing phase diagrams to illustrate this point.
  • A participant notes that while water can turn into ice under high pressure, it requires conditions that exceed typical atmospheric pressure.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of 'solid', with some suggesting that compressing a liquid may not result in a crystalline solid but rather a dense liquid.
  • Some participants mention that glasses, often considered solids, are actually amorphous and may exhibit slow flow, challenging traditional definitions of solid states.
  • There is a distinction made between crystalline solids and amorphous solids, with references to how different materials behave under varying conditions of temperature and pressure.
  • One participant highlights that the interpretation of 'state of matter' can vary between chemists and physicists, suggesting a broader understanding of the concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions of solid and liquid states, the effects of pressure, and the conditions under which phase transitions occur.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of states of matter, the need for high pressures to achieve certain phase transitions, and the unresolved nature of how to classify materials like glasses.

jaydnul
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Let me know if i am correct here. Temperature is just the amount of energy associated with that particle or molecule? So why does that determine if it is solid, liquid, or gas? Why doesn't water turn into ice at room temperature when you compress it into itself enough? Like in star wars when they are trapped in the garbage shoot and the walls are caving in (haha), but coming from every direction and squeezing a sample of water, or anything, into itself. Wouldnt the h2o particles eventually become close enough to each other to become a solid?
 
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lundyjb said:
Why doesn't water turn into ice at room temperature when you compress it into itself enough?
It does. But you need a really high pressure for that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can compress liquid water into a solid, but just because solid water is LESS dense than liquid water. If water was "normal", you would be able to do it.
 
Lsos said:
but just because solid water is LESS dense than liquid water.
That is true at atmospheric pressure, but not for higher pressures. See the phase diagram at Wikipedia, for example.
 
Most solids are crystalline, with very ordered structure that represents a lowest energy configuration. It doesn't change shape because of that.
I don't think that if you could compress a liquid enough it would ever form a crystalline solid. You'd just have a very, very dense liquid that still flows.
The question is how do you define 'solid'?

Other solids are glasses, which are very viscous, slow flowing liquids. You might make something like that - but can you call it a solid?
 
You can compress water into a solid. It happens just over 1 GPa at room temperature. I believe the crystalline form is tetragonal rather than the hexagonal that we are used to.
 
AJ Bentley said:
Other solids are glasses, which are very viscous, slow flowing liquids. You might make something like that - but can you call it a solid?
Glasses are solid materials. They are not liquids, which is a common misconception.
If you want long enough, every solid material with finite temperature will have some re-ordering of the atoms. But the typical timescale is so long that this is not relevant.

I don't think that if you could compress a liquid enough it would ever form a crystalline solid.
Well, it does (at least in general). You press the atoms into some dense structure.
 
  • #10
mfb said:
Glasses are solid materials. They are not liquids, which is a common misconception

The common misconception is the 'proof' of glazing glass flow by observation of blown glass windows, not the fact that many glass-like materials exhibit flow, particularly thermoplastics, various resins and rubbers.
The question is as to exactly when very slow movement becomes no movement.
 
  • #11
Surely a solid has a(n attempt at) a regular crystal structure or arrangement of molecules.

Fluids and glasses do not, as do other amorphous states of matter.

Chemists and physicists also differ in their interpretation of the word 'state of matter', recognising many more than do physicists.
 
  • #12
I think we've answered the OP's question. Other things besides temperature matter. Pressure. Temperature history (glass vs. quartz). Pressure history (graphite vs. diamond)
 

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