Converting Linear Accelerator To Circular One

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of converting a linear accelerator into a circular one, focusing on the angular frequency of accelerated particles and the implications of relativistic effects. Participants explore the relationship between the frequency of the supplied current and the angular frequency of particles in both linear and circular accelerators.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the angular frequency of accelerated particles is given by the formula ω = qB/m = 2πf, questioning if this holds true for a circular accelerator.
  • Another participant suggests that for relativistic particles, an additional factor of γ should be included, leading to the formula ω = qB/γm.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the role of the magnetic field (B) in the proposed formulas, with one participant expressing confusion about its inclusion.
  • A participant inquires whether the decrease in angular frequency for relativistic particles is due to time dilation or an increase in mass.
  • Participants discuss the nature of the current supplied to the accelerator, with some emphasizing the variability of current depending on the type of magnets used and the energy of the particles.
  • One participant asserts that the angular frequency of moving particles should equal the frequency of the current applied, questioning if this applies to multiple particles.
  • There is a challenge regarding the understanding of how circular accelerators operate, with some participants expressing skepticism about the initial claims made in the thread.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the angular frequency formulas to circular accelerators, particularly regarding relativistic effects and the role of current. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation or application of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity regarding the definitions and assumptions related to the current supplied to the accelerator and the specific design of the circular accelerator being discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying accelerator physics, particularly in the context of transitioning from linear to circular designs and the implications of relativistic effects on particle acceleration.

Mohamed Nedal
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Hi guys ,

Suppose there is a circular accelerator has the same inner structure of a linear accelerator in terms of the rings of acceleration ...

The angular frequency of accelerated particles is : ω = qB/m = 2πf , and this is also the supplied current frequency ...

The question is , The above formula of ω works in this case ?


Sincerely , ...
 
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Just for future references, "accelerator" topics do not belong in High Energy/Nuclear Physics. While accelerators ARE used in those fields, the area of accelerator physics deals mainly with classical E&M, and thus, belong in the Classical Physics forum, which is where this thread will be moved to.

Zz.
 
For slow particles, that is fine. For relativistic particles, you need an additional factor of γ: ##\omega = \frac{qB}{\gamma m}##
and this is also the supplied current frequency ...
Current where?
 
ZapperZ said:
Just for future references, "accelerator" topics do not belong in High Energy/Nuclear Physics. While accelerators ARE used in those fields, the area of accelerator physics deals mainly with classical E&M, and thus, belong in the Classical Physics forum, which is where this thread will be moved to.

Zz.

Okay , I'll be careful in the next time
 
mfb said:
For slow particles, that is fine. For relativistic particles, you need an additional factor of γ: ##\omega = \frac{qB}{\gamma m}##

Current where?

The current that supplied to the accelerator
 


Mohamed Nedal said:
Hi guys ,

Suppose there is a circular accelerator has the same inner structure of a linear accelerator in terms of the rings of acceleration ...
Not sure what you are imagining here:
I think of a linear accelerator like that (link) ... so the picture I get is somehow putting the rings in a circle. But this uses electric fields so...
The angular frequency of accelerated particles is : ω = qB/m = 2πf , and this is also the frequency of the supplied current ...
... I'm not sure where the B comes into it.
 
mfb said:
For relativistic particles, you need an additional factor of γ: ##\omega = \frac{qB}{\gamma m}##

just curious, is the decrease in angular frequency due to time dilation or an increase in mass?
 
Mohamed Nedal said:
The current that supplied to the accelerator
That is extremely vague.

The connection to the electrical grid? That can be any frequency (or even DC), it does not matter as long as you know it in advance.

The electricity for dipole magnets? That depends on the energy of the particles in the ring. In storage rings, it is constant. If the energy of the particles increases, the current has to increase in most setups, too.
The electricity for kicker magnets? Varies with the beam and the setup.
The electricity for other magnets? Depends on the magnets.

The electricity for radio-frequency cavities? Those cavities need radio frequency as input, where the frequency depends on the cavity geometry.@greswd: It comes from the modified reaction of particles to forces: ##F_T=\gamma m a_T##. The mass of particles is constant, "relativistic mass" is something you find in outdated textbooks only.
 
yes I mean the current ( electricity ) that I apply on the accelerator .

According to what I understand , The angular frequency of moving particles is equal to the angular frequency of the current which is applied on the accelerator , is equal to : ω = q*B/m = 2*π*f , where ( f ) is the frequency of the current , right ?


If it was right , It is for one particle , So for all particles .. should I multiply with ( N ) the total number of particles ?
 
  • #10
You do know that circular accelerators do not move electrons the way you are describing here's don't you?

Zz.
 
  • #11
yes I know how cyclotron , synchrotron , betatron .. etc. works

I suppose another design for circular accelerator
 
  • #12
Mohamed Nedal said:
yes I know how cyclotron , synchrotron , betatron .. etc. works

I suppose another design for circular accelerator

I don't think you do, and you're making very little sense in this thread, but OK.

Zz.
 
  • #13
Mohamed Nedal said:
yes I mean the current ( electricity ) that I apply on the accelerator .
As mentioned before, that is not a useful description.

I suppose another design for circular accelerator
In that case, you should describe it first.

I agree with ZapperZ.
 

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