Applied Angular Velocity & Acceleration

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the torque required for a product that rotates cups around a shaft, focusing on angular velocity and acceleration. Participants explore the implications of their calculations and the motion profile needed for the application.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents calculations for angular velocity and acceleration, including the moment of inertia and torque requirements for a stepper motor.
  • Another participant challenges the calculation of angular velocity at the center point, suggesting it may represent average velocity rather than instantaneous velocity.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of visualizing the motion through sketches of acceleration and velocity over time to clarify the calculations.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of acceleration in the context of constant velocity moves, with one participant noting that such moves require infinite acceleration for an infinitely short time.
  • Participants discuss the need for a constant acceleration motion profile, where acceleration occurs for the first half of the motion and deceleration for the second half.
  • One participant expresses confusion about how to determine acceleration when approaching zero time, indicating a potential misunderstanding in their calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the calculations presented, with multiple competing views regarding the interpretation of angular velocity and the appropriate motion profile. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to explore these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for sketches to better understand the relationships between acceleration, velocity, and time, indicating that the calculations may depend heavily on these visual representations. There is also mention of the potential impact of friction on torque calculations, which remains unaddressed.

TJS
Hey guys, I'm working on a product that rotates cups around a shaft, I am trying to calculate the torque required to do so. I have given it my best shot below, does this seem right to you?
The Main Shaft Motor will need to rotate holder one from the filling cups position to the pressing lids position within a 2 second interval (see attached for an illustrtaion). The angle of rotation between these two points is 29deg. As the motor will be required to rotate the shaft from a static equilibrium, an acceleration is required, the acceleration will be at it's max at the center point of this rotation just before it begins to decelerate. Therefore, selecting the motor to cope with the worst-case scenario of ∝ = maximum I will use the angular velocity at the point of half rotation.
The angle at the half rotation point is :
θ = 14.26 deg
The time required to get there will be half the time of a full rotation, therefore:
∆t=1-0
To find ω, θ needs to be in radians, therefore converting degrees to radians.
θ rad=14.26*0.01745329= 0.2489rad
Finding the angular velocity ω at the center point.
ω =( 0.2489)/(1 )
Using ω to calculate ∝ = maximum:
∝ = ( ∆ω )/(∆t )= ( 0.2489-0)/(1-0 )= 0.2489 m⁄s^2
Stepper motors can be selected based on Torque and Power requirements. Using angular acceleration and velocity the power and torque requirements can be calculated using the formulas below;
τ = I × ∝ and P = τ × ω
From the solid-works CAD model, the value for moment of inertia about the axis of the motor shaft is taken to be 0.197 Kgm^2 and therefore;
Multiplying the moment of inertia by a safety factor of five to ensure reliability, the moment of inertia I will take is:
0.9850 Kgm^2
τ = I × ∝ = 0.9850×0.2489=0.2452Nm

P = τ × ω= 0.2452 ×0.2489= 0.0610 W
Based on these calculations I have selected the NEMA Stepper Motor model number 42BYGHW60. This stepper motor can produce a torque between 0.16-0.56Nm.
 

Attachments

  • Finished pic.png
    Finished pic.png
    21.3 KB · Views: 529
Physics news on Phys.org
TJS said:
Finding the angular velocity ω at the center point.
ω =( 0.2489)/(1 )
NO. To understand why, draw a couple of simple sketches. First, acceleration vs time with constant acceleration. Second, velocity vs time. Hand sketches are good enough, you don't need CAD for this.

Otherwise, it looks good. I prefer to put in a safety factor at the very end by putting it on the torque requirement. Don't forget to include friction.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: TJS
JRMichler said:
NO. To understand why draw a couple of simple sketches. First, acceleration vs time with constant acceleration. Second, velocity vs time. Hand sketches are good enough, you don't need CAD for this.

Hi, do you think you could elaborate on what is incorrect here? Do you mean that ω =( 0.2489)/(1 ) is not the velocity at the center point but just the average velocity?
Does this effect my calculations or is it just a writing error?
 
The two sketches I recommended will communicate better than 1000 words. Sketch them, post them, and then ask.

I have done hundreds of these type calculations, and I still make simple little sketches of acceleration, velocity, and position vs time.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: TJS
JRMichler said:
The two sketches I recommended will communicate better than 1000 words. Sketch them, post them, and then ask.
I have sketched these two graphs very quickly on MATLAB, i think I see what you mean, my worst case acceleration is actually as t approaches zero and not at t=1. If my graphs are correct and this is true, now I don't know what acceleration to take as I can't take it when t=0 as this would give me a value of infinity.
What do you think?
Acceleration Vs Time
upload_2017-10-26_10-25-35.png

Velocity Vs Time
upload_2017-10-26_10-25-54.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2017-10-26_10-25-35.png
    upload_2017-10-26_10-25-35.png
    9 KB · Views: 496
  • upload_2017-10-26_10-25-54.png
    upload_2017-10-26_10-25-54.png
    4.5 KB · Views: 475
You show a plot with constant velocity. A constant velocity move requires infinite acceleration for an infinitely short time (an impulse) at the start, and an equal and opposite acceleration at the end of the move.

A typical motion profile for an application such as yours would be a constant acceleration move. Accelerate halfway at constant acceleration, then decelerate the second half at the same constant acceleration. The sketch below shows what I mean. The horizontal axis is time, the vertical axis is acceleration. The next step is to make a similar sketch of the velocity, then start putting real numbers (and units) into both the acceleration and velocity sketches. You may want to add a third sketch for position vs time.

PA260330.JPG


The purpose of these sketches is to help understand exactly what you are calculating. Until you have that understanding, you are trying to solve a problem by blindly plugging numbers into randomly selected equations. After you have that understanding, you will not only know what equations to use, but you will be able to solve more complex cases where canned equations are not available.
 

Attachments

  • PA260330.JPG
    PA260330.JPG
    9.2 KB · Views: 815
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: TJS
JRMichler said:
You show a plot with constant velocity. A constant velocity move requires infinite acceleration for an infinitely short time (an impulse) at the start, and an equal and opposite acceleration at the end of the move.

A typical motion profile for an application such as yours would be a constant acceleration move. Accelerate halfway at constant acceleration, then decelerate the second half at the same constant acceleration. The sketch below shows what I mean. The horizontal axis is time, the vertical axis is acceleration. The next step is to make a similar sketch of the velocity, then start putting real numbers (and units) into both the acceleration and velocity sketches. You may want to add a third sketch for position vs time.

View attachment 213795

The purpose of these sketches is to help understand exactly what you are calculating. Until you have that understanding, you are trying to solve a problem by blindly plugging numbers into randomly selected equations. After you have that understanding, you will not only know what equations to use, but you will be able to solve more complex cases where canned equations are not available.
This has been extremely helpful, thank you, it makes a lot of sense now. I have plotted the sketches and they have really helped my understanding.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: JRMichler

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
16K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K