What is the true definition of countable sets?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion clarifies the definition of countable sets, highlighting that a set is countable if there exists an injective function from the set to the natural numbers, not necessarily a surjective one. A set is countably infinite if there exists a bijection between the set and the natural numbers. Finite sets are also considered countable since they can be injected into the natural numbers. The distinction between countable and uncountable sets is emphasized, with examples like the integers and rationals being countably infinite, while the reals are uncountable. Terminology may vary among authors, with some defining countable sets to include only those with bijections to the naturals, while others include finite sets as countable.
CAF123
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I seem to have a couple of contradictory statements of what a countable set is defined to be:
In my textbook I have:
'Let E be a set. E is said to be countable if and only if there exists a 1-1 function which takes ##\mathbb{N}## onto E.'

This implies to me that that there has to exist a beijection from ##\mathbb{N}## to E since they use 1-1 and onto in the defintion.

In my notes I have: E is said to be countable if there is a bijection ##f: \mathbb{N} \mapsto E##'

However, when I looked on Wikipedia, I read:
A set S is called countable if there exists an injective function f from S to the natural numbers N.

Is there a contradiction here and if so, what is the true defintion?
 
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The true definition is: a set S is countable if there exists an injection f:S\rightarrow \mathbb{N}. Note it does NOT have to be a surjection as well, in general. IF f also happens to be surjective then we say S is countably infinite.
 
That was a quick reply. What exactly does countably infinite mean?
If I understand correctly, then if a set is finite it is automatically countable. So an infinite set is countable provided there exists a bijection from N to E?
 
A set S is countably infinite if there exists a bijection f:S\rightarrow \mathbb{N}. If S is not countable (i.e. neither countably infinite nor countably finite) then we say S is uncountable. So, for example, \mathbb{Z},\mathbb{Q} are countably infinite but \mathbb{R} is uncountable (the proof of this is one of the most beautiful proofs in mathematics and was shown by Cantor using the extremely elegant diagonal argument).
 
WannabeNewton said:
A set S is countably infinite if there exists a bijection f:S\rightarrow \mathbb{N}. If S is not countable (i.e. neither countably infinite nor countably finite) then we say S is uncountable. So, for example, \mathbb{Z},\mathbb{Q} are countably infinite but \mathbb{R} is uncountable (the proof of this is one of the most beautiful proofs in mathematics and was shown by Cantor using the extremely elegant diagonal argument).
I have in my notes that '...bijection from N to S'. But you have bijection from S to N. I suppose it won't matter here. But for an injection N to S, is an injection S to N the same thing. (it seems so, but I just want to clarify).
 
No it doesn't mean the same thing. There exists an injection f:\left \{ 1,2 \right \}\rightarrow \mathbb{N} (it is just the inclusion map). Does that imply there exists an injection f:\mathbb{N}\rightarrow \left \{ 1,2 \right \}? It doesn't of course!
 
Just to add that the Cantor-Schroder-Bernstein says that if there are injections between N and S and between S and N , then there is a bijection between N and S .
 
A fun and short exercise is to show, using the well ordering theorem, that there exists an uncountable well - ordered set Y such that \forall x\in Y, there exist only countably many y\in Y such that y < x. It's a pretty awesome result considering we are talking about an uncountable, totally ordered set!
 
Different authors tend to use different terminology. Some authors use countable to denote that there is a bijection to the natural numbers. In their terminology, finite sets are not countable. Other authors (the majority, I guess), allow finite sets to be countable.
 
  • #10
For sets that are finite and said to be countable does that mean there always exists an injection from S to N?

In your example, an injection could be ##1 \mapsto 1## and ##2\mapsto 2##?

Or if we take a set {1} then the injection could be ##1 \mapsto a##, ##a \in \mathbb{N}##.
 
  • #11
Yes to all your questions.
 
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