Big bang and small bang black holes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "small bang" black holes in relation to the Big Bang theory. Participants explore the implications of black holes potentially exhibiting explosive behaviors similar to the Big Bang, questioning the existence and observable consequences of such phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the Big Bang (BB) is true, there should exist black holes that could explode like the Big Bang, raising questions about evidence for "small bang" black holes.
  • There is speculation about whether every singularity could be considered a Big Bang, with references to related theories.
  • Some suggest that explosions might occur inside black holes, potentially transforming them into wormholes, which may not be observable from the outside.
  • Participants discuss the challenges of deriving observable consequences from theoretical models that suggest a bounce could create a new expanding region of spacetime concealed by a black hole's event horizon.
  • Questions are raised regarding the relationship between the mass of rebounding black holes and the speed of evaporation due to Hawking radiation, with some noting that smaller black holes are theorized to evaporate faster than larger ones.
  • There are inquiries about whether the flux of Hawking radiation from very small black holes could eventually be observed and what information it might provide.
  • Some participants express hope that further exploration of these questions will yield better answers from others in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the nature of small bang black holes, their observable consequences, and the implications of Hawking radiation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes limitations such as unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on theoretical models that are still in preliminary stages. There is also a lack of definitive evidence regarding the proposed phenomena.

spideyinspace
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if BB is true then there should be black holes which should also explode like the big bang...Do we have evidence for this type of small bang black holes...
 
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spideyinspace said:
if BB is true then there should be black holes which should also explode like the big bang...Do we have evidence for this type of small bang black holes...

Are you saying that every singularity may be a big bang?
There is a theory ralated to that: "[URL universes
[/URL]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
spideyinspace said:
if BB is true then there should be black holes which should also explode like the big bang...Do we have evidence for this type of small bang black holes...

Maybe the explosion takes place inside a BH, maybe there is a bounce inside changing a a BH in a WH and maybe it will not be observed from the outside?
 
spideyinspace said:
if BB is true then there should be black holes which should also explode like the big bang...

What Hurk4 says is right. One would not expect to see the re-expansion, because it would be creating a new expanding region---a tract of space separate from our space.

the difficult issue is what observable consequences can be derived from the models that have this feature, that astronomers can look for

something about our own big bang? some distinctive signature to tell us where it could have come from.
some signature in the gammaray bursts which seem to be associated with the collapse of massive stars into black holes? something associated with black holes, in other words.

the tricky thing is the evidence.
there are a number of research papers that give theoretical models of how the collapse of a star could "bounce" and result in a second region of spacetime* that expands from the pit----theorists argue about these models. the hard thing is to find out what OTHER distinctive things the various models predict, so they can be tested.

*concealed from our observable universe by the black hole's event horizon
 
Last edited:
marcus said:
What Hurk4 says is right. One would not expect to see the re-expansion, because it would be creating a new expanding region---a tract of space separate from our space.

the difficult issue is what observable consequences can be derived from the models that have this feature, that astronomers can look for

something about our own big bang? some distinctive signature to tell us where it could have come from.
some signature in the gammaray bursts which seem to be associated with the collapse of massive stars into black holes? something associated with black holes, in other words.

the tricky thing is the evidence.
there are a number of research papers that give theoretical models of how the collapse of a star could "bounce" and result in a second region of spacetime* that expands from the pit----theorists argue about these models. the hard thing is to find out what OTHER distinctive things the various models predict, so they can be tested.

*concealed from our observable universe by the black hole's event horizon

I have some secondary questions here.
1) Is there (already?) something known about the relation of the mass (of the rebouncing hole) and the speed of evaporation by Hawking radiation. I think that theory says that small holes evaporate faster than big holes? (To be remarked here is that the smallest possible hole has the Planck dimension and that it lifetime is of the order of Planck time i.e. 10E-43second. Big holes live very very long and must look very static). I don't think 'Hawking evaporation has anything to do with an explosion.
2) Can it be expected from theory that such a Hawking evaporation flux eventually can be observed in case of very small holes?
3) Maybe observation of Hawking radiation flux can give us qualitative and quantitave information about small holes?
 
hurk4 said:
I have some secondary questions here.
1) Is there (already?) something known about the relation of the mass (of the rebouncing hole) and the speed of evaporation by Hawking radiation. I think that theory says that small holes evaporate faster than big holes? (To be remarked here is that the smallest possible hole has the Planck dimension and that it lifetime is of the order of Planck time i.e. 10E-43second. Big holes live very very long and must look very static). I don't think 'Hawking evaporation has anything to do with an explosion.
2) Can it be expected from theory that such a Hawking evaporation flux eventually can be observed in case of very small holes?
3) Maybe observation of Hawking radiation flux can give us qualitative and quantitave information about small holes?

at least some of these could be answered better by some of the others here and I hope they do. they are good questions.
1) AFAIK the answer is NO. the speed of evaporation----the lifetime of the BH---is governed by the mass of the BH

but different models (all are preliminary) allow for different relations between the ingoing mass of the BH and the outgoing.

2) I personally expect that if and when we observe small BH we will observe their high-flux final burst of radiation. So the answer here is yes.

3) YES! in my opinion, it will be the best or one of the best sources of information
 

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