Is the Aether Truly Attached to Earth?

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    Aether Earth
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theory of aether and its potential attachment to Earth, exploring its implications for understanding experiments like the Michelson-Morley experiment and the nature of time in physics. Participants express varying opinions on the validity and usefulness of the aether theory in light of experimental evidence and definitions in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the dismissal of the aether theory, suggesting it is as plausible as other hypotheses in physics.
  • Others argue that experimental falsification is a key reason for the rejection of the aether theory.
  • Concerns are raised about the relevance of obscure experiments that challenge established theories, with some participants expressing frustration over the perceived disruption of useful hypotheses.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of defining fundamental concepts like time before discussing their implications in theories.
  • Another participant critiques the lack of a clear definition of 'aether' and suggests that reliance on intellectual speculation over empirical evidence is problematic.
  • There is a discussion about the gravitational field of Earth and its potential effects on observations, with some participants acknowledging its significance.
  • Participants express differing views on the Michelson-Morley experiment, with some defending its relevance while others label it as obscure or questionable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the aether theory or the implications of experimental results. Multiple competing views remain, with ongoing debate about the definitions and relevance of concepts like time and aether.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clear definitions for key terms such as 'aether' and 'time,' as well as unresolved questions regarding the implications of experimental results on theoretical frameworks.

hartlw
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Just out of curiousity, what's wrong with the theory that the aether is attached to the earth? It's no more fantastic than the hypothesis that the Earth is the only inhabited piece of matter in the known universe. And if it makes it easier to "think" and explains the Michelson Morley and similar experiments and celestial obsevations, why not? Halliday and Resnick second edition comment that physicists don't like it. That's the reason?

While I'm on the subject, why is it that classical physicists carefully define time and distance while special relativity simply starts with speed without first defining time?
 
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hartlw said:
Just out of curiousity, what's wrong with the theory that the aether is attached to the earth? It's no more fantastic than the hypothesis that the Earth is the only inhabited piece of matter in the known universe. And if it makes it easier to "think" and explains the Michelson Morley and similar experiments and celestial obsevations, why not? Halliday and Resnick second edition comment that physicists don't like it. That's the reason?

No, experimental falsification is the actual reason.
 
Link unintelligible. Why bother upsetting a very useful and intelligible hypothesis with obscure experiments?
 
hartlw said:
Link unintelligible. Why bother upsetting a very useful and intelligible hypothesis with obscure experiments?

I apologise for wasting my time, I promise not to do it again :-)
 
Last edited:
hartlw said:
Link unintelligible. Why bother upsetting a very useful and intelligible hypothesis with obscure experiments?

Are you suggesting that we should ignore experimental results that disprove an unverified theory simply on the basis of the theory's subjectively assigned "usefulness"?!

:rolleyes:
 
The gravitational field of Earth is quite dominant here locally. It might well have much effect on observations made in the vicinity of the Earth.
 
I don't think it's worth upsetting the system to explain an obscure, questionable, experiment. Especially if the "explanation" involves a fudamental parameter like time without even first defining it.
 
Ooke wrote: "The gravitational field of Earth is quite dominant here locally. It might well have much effect on observations made in the vicinity of the Earth."

That's a reasonable observation. I love reason. As an example of logical thinking:

It is logically concluded an electron must reside outside of nucleus. But then it would collapse due to force of attraction. OK, so it revolves around nucleus. But then it would lose energy by elecrical radiation and slowly collapse. OK, it occupies specific orbits (energy levels). Let's determine them by theory and experiment. Fine. I'm sold. Quantum mchanics. Very interesting. Can't imagine the thought process with relativity in mind.
 
Mech_Engineer said:
Are you suggesting that we should ignore experimental results that disprove an unverified theory simply on the basis of the theory's subjectively assigned "usefulness"?! :

I'm suggesting we should look for a logical explanation based on first principles, like the definition of time.
 
  • #10
Hartlw:
In my opinion you're talking rubbish.

First you haven't defined what you mean by 'an aether', and secondly you prefer intellectual indulgence to hard physical evidence. The 'nature of time' has nothing to do with the case.
 
  • #11
Mentz114 wrote:
"In my opinion you're talking rubbish.

First you haven't defined what you mean by 'an aether', and secondly you prefer intellectual indulgence to hard physical evidence. The 'nature of time' has nothing to do with the case."

Aether: A reference frame in which the speed of light is the same in all directions, postulating the availability of an absolute clock and measure of length.

"The nature of time has nothing to do with the case." I agree. That's not science. we need a concrete definition. What is "the nature" of mass, length, charge, time? We can only define them with physical definitions based on experiment and observation. Only God knows "the nature" of these things.
 
  • #12
I don't think it's worth upsetting the system to explain an obscure, questionable, experiment. Especially if the "explanation" involves a fudamental parameter like time without even first defining it.

The MM experiment is neither obscure nor questionable. "upsetting the system " what system ? You mean your own private set of beliefs which you arrogantly hold to be true ?

How can any explanation not involve time ? Time is well enough defined to make physical theories self consistent and agree with experiment.
 
  • #13
Mentz114 said:
The MM experiment is neither obscure nor questionable. "upsetting the system " what system ? You mean your own private set of beliefs which you arrogantly hold to be true ?

:smile:
 

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