First law of thermodynamics in layman's term

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the first law of thermodynamics, exploring its implications, definitions, and relationships between various thermodynamic quantities. Participants seek to clarify terms and concepts in layman's terms, touching on theoretical and conceptual aspects of thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the first law of thermodynamics in terms of differential equations and seeks to understand the meaning of each term in plain English.
  • Another participant describes the first law as a statement of conservation of energy, relating thermal energy changes to work done by or on a system.
  • A participant emphasizes that the first law encompasses all forms of energy and notes that different forms may not need to be considered in specific contexts.
  • Indicator diagrams are introduced as a way to visualize energy relationships, with areas under certain graphs representing energy or work.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between entropy and heat capacity, with one participant questioning whether they are interchangeable due to having the same units.
  • Clarification is sought on the distinction between heat capacity and specific heat capacity, with some participants noting that they are not the same despite having similar units.
  • One participant explains that entropy is defined as the ratio of heat exchanged to the absolute temperature, highlighting the differences between heat capacity and entropy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the definitions and relationships between thermodynamic quantities. There is no consensus on whether entropy and heat capacity are interchangeable, and participants clarify their understanding of specific terms.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that their interpretations may vary and that certain terms may have specific definitions that could lead to confusion. The discussion reflects a range of understandings and assumptions about thermodynamic concepts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals seeking to understand the first law of thermodynamics and its implications in a more accessible manner, as well as those interested in the relationships between thermodynamic quantities.

lowerlowerhk
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The first law of thermodynamics

dU=dQ-dW

could be expanded to

dU=TdS-PdV

where

U is internal energy,
T is temperature,
S is entropy,
P is pressure, and
V is volume.

I am trying to understand the terms one by one in plain English.

So:
V is how big the container is,
P is how hard the container is pushing the system,
U is internal energy of system,
T is how willing the system want to give out heat, and
S is how evenly distributed the thermal energy is.

Plus:
PdV is energy (loss) due to the system pushes out the surroundings to make itself a room, and
TdS is energy due to the particles jumping around.

Is there misconception? and

I don't understand why TdS would be a form of energy, why?
 
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My (imperfect) understanding based on a short visit to Wikipedia is that the first law of thermodynamics is a simple statement of conservation of energy. That is, the change in thermal energy(heat) of a cooler area is equal to the change in heat of the hotter area - work extracted from the system.

This could be combined with the ideal gas laws (lets see how I remember chemistry...) to relate a change in volume pressure or temperature to work extracted from a system. For example, if 1J of thermal energy is added to an area, and it does .1J of work, then .9J will be transferred as heat energy.
 
The first law is indeed a statement of the principle of conservation of energy. All forms of energy.

So your equations are only part of the story as there are many more forms of energy. Obviously if all our action takes place on a table top we don't need to consider gravitational energy. Similarly if no electric current is flowing we don't need to consider electric energy. and so forth.

With regard to the thermodynamic quantities you mention here is a simple non rigorous answer.

Energy as shown by indicator diagrams. These are graphs connection two (a pair) of variables.

It was realized that the area under a pressure - volume (PV) graph represented work or energy.

Clausius introduced Entropy to pair with temperature to be able to draw a similar graph for heat energy. Again the area under the entropy - temperature (TS) graph gives energy.

The hatched areas in the attachment both represent energy of some sort.

attachment.php?attachmentid=31503&d=1295654034.gif


Similar indicator diagrams can be drawn for other pairs of quantities

Voltage - Charge
Force - Distance
Surface Tension - Area
Magnetic Field - Magnetic Moment


go well

***
 
Studiot said:
The first law is indeed a statement of the principle of conservation of energy. All forms of energy.

So your equations are only part of the story as there are many more forms of energy. Obviously if all our action takes place on a table top we don't need to consider gravitational energy. Similarly if no electric current is flowing we don't need to consider electric energy. and so forth.

With regard to the thermodynamic quantities you mention here is a simple non rigorous answer.

Energy as shown by indicator diagrams. These are graphs connection two (a pair) of variables.

It was realized that the area under a pressure - volume (PV) graph represented work or energy.

Clausius introduced Entropy to pair with temperature to be able to draw a similar graph for heat energy. Again the area under the entropy - temperature (TS) graph gives energy.

The hatched areas in the attachment both represent energy of some sort.

attachment.php?attachmentid=31503&d=1295654034.gif


Similar indicator diagrams can be drawn for other pairs of quantities

Voltage - Charge
Force - Distance
Surface Tension - Area
Magnetic Field - Magnetic Moment


go well

***


I interpret this as: entropy means how much thermal energy is stored per temperature, treating temperature as some kind of energy storing pocket and the value of entropy tells the ratio. That sounds pretty much like heat capacity to me. Are they actually interchangeable (they have the same unit)?
 
That sounds pretty much like heat capacity to me.

Not sure what you mean by heat capacity. Are you referring to specific heat capacity (often shortened to specific heat) or to enthalpy?
 
Studiot said:
Not sure what you mean by heat capacity. Are you referring to specific heat capacity (often shortened to specific heat) or to enthalpy?

I mean heat capacity of the whole system, which equals specific heat capacity times mass of system. It has the same unit as entropy (J/K)
 
That sounds pretty much like heat capacity to me. Are they actually interchangeable (they have the same unit)?

OK now we know you mean specific heat, and considering unit mass to make things easy,

The two quantities are not the same.

There are many cases in Physics where two things have ostensibky the same units but are different

eg work and moment both have units of Newton-metres but I'm sure you realize they are very different.

In this case Entropy is the ration of heat (only) exchanged divided by the absolute temperature the exchange takes place at. There is only one temperature.

The heat taken up in heating the mass changes the temperature and the amount of heat = spcific heat times temperature difference.

go well
 

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