Theory of graviation for lazy people

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a paper proposing a relativistic generalization of gravitational force that extends special relativity (SR) to include gravitational effects. Participants explore the implications of this theory, its simplicity, and its potential compatibility with quantum mechanics, while also raising concerns about its treatment of the speed of light and the absence of discussions on gravitational waves and binary pulsars.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that the proposed theory improves on Nordstroem by suggesting higher mass at higher potential, which aligns with the perihelion precession of Mercury.
  • Others express skepticism about the treatment of the speed of light in the theory, particularly the choice of c0 as a limit speed.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the lack of discussion on gravitational waves and the orbital decay of binary pulsars, with some suggesting that this omission may limit the theory's predictive power.
  • One participant argues that binary pulsars provide a more stringent test for gravitational theories compared to Mercury, citing their precise decay predictions through gravitational radiation.
  • Another participant notes that while gravitational waves have not been directly detected, the predictions related to binary pulsars serve as strong indirect evidence for existing theories.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the robustness of the proposed theory, particularly regarding its treatment of light speed and its predictive capabilities concerning binary pulsars and gravitational waves. There is no consensus on the strengths or weaknesses of the theory.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the proposed theory, such as its unfinished status and the potential preclusion of quantitative predictions by experimental results. The debate also reflects varying perspectives on the significance of different tests of gravitational theories.

harrylin
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Today I stumbled on a paper in Foundations of Physics that seems to successfully extend SR to include effects from gravitation:

On Relativistic Generalization of Gravitational Force
Anatoli Andrei Vankov
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0611161

Basically what he does is to improve on Nordstroem; the theory has higher mass at higher potential. That allows him to obtain the correct perihelion of Mercury, so that its predictions are approximately the same as GR for little gravitation. The theory is still not really finished but it looks promising to me, if only because of its simplicity (elementary mathematics, good for lazy people like me!). It also seems to naturally fit well with quantum mechanics.

What I suspect may need correction is the way he deals with the speed of light; I consider his choice to set c0 instead of c as limit speed (if I understood him correctly) to be a mistake.

Any other comments? (Are there other obvious weaknesses?)
 
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harrylin said:
Today I stumbled on a paper in Foundations of Physics that seems to successfully extend SR to include effects from gravitation:

On Relativistic Generalization of Gravitational Force
Anatoli Andrei Vankov
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0611161

Basically what he does is to improve on Nordstroem; the theory has higher mass at higher potential. That allows him to obtain the correct perihelion of Mercury, so that its predictions are approximately the same as GR for little gravitation. The theory is still not really finished but it looks promising to me, if only because of its simplicity (elementary mathematics, good for lazy people like me!). It also seems to naturally fit well with quantum mechanics.

What I suspect may need correction is the way he deals with the speed of light; I consider his choice to set c0 instead of c as limit speed (if I understood him correctly) to be a mistake.

Any other comments? (Are there other obvious weaknesses?)

There is no discussion of gravitational waves or the orbital decay of binary pulsars. It is possible that quantitative predictions are already precluded by experiment.
 
PAllen said:
There is no discussion of gravitational waves or the orbital decay of binary pulsars. It is possible that quantitative predictions are already precluded by experiment.
Thanks! Could you elaborate why you think that binary pulsars are a more severe test than Mercury?
 
harrylin said:
Thanks. Could you elaborate why you think that binary pulsars are a more severe test than Mercury?

Binary Pulsar orbits slow by exactly the amount predicted by decay through gravitational radiation. It is a precise, strong field, test. Essentially every other candidate theory that matches on the weak field tests fails to make any or an accurate prediction for this decay. While GW have not been detected directly, the success of this prediction is extremely strong indirect evidence.
 
PAllen said:
Binary Pulsar orbits slow by exactly the amount predicted by decay through gravitational radiation. It is a precise, strong field, test. Essentially every other candidate theory that matches on the weak field tests fails to make any or an accurate prediction for this decay. While GW have not been detected directly, the success of this prediction is extremely strong indirect evidence.
OK, that will be interesting to compare!
 

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