Can Atoms be Classified as Dipolar Substances?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around whether atoms can be classified as dipolar substances, exploring the conditions under which an atom may exhibit a dipole moment. It touches on concepts from atomic physics and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a neutral hydrogen atom can be considered a dipole under certain conditions, while others argue that it does not exhibit a dipole moment without an external electric field.
  • One participant suggests that the unique structure of the hydrogen atom, with one electron and one proton, allows for a clearer definition of dipole direction compared to other atoms.
  • Another participant emphasizes the necessity of quantum mechanical analysis for all atoms, indicating that the electron cloud does not have a definite location, which complicates the dipole classification.
  • There is mention of the effect of external fields on the electron cloud, which can induce a dipole moment, as illustrated by the phenomenon of Rayleigh scattering in the atmosphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of hydrogen and other atoms as dipoles, indicating that there is no consensus on the matter. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the conditions under which atoms can be classified as dipolar.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding atomic behavior, particularly the dependence on quantum mechanics and the influence of external fields on dipole moments. There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions and conditions necessary for classifying atoms as dipoles.

Prashasti
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Can an atom be considered as an example of a dipole? It has positive charge in the nucleus and negative charge around it?!
 
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Depends. For example with neutral hydrogen atom the electron "cloud" completely cancels the positive charge from the nucleus.

But if there is an external field applied, then the electron cloud can be reshaped so that there is a dipole moment. This happens when sunlight passes by the nitrogen molecules in the atmosphere - the result is Rayleigh scattering of the light from these molecular dipoles - and so the sky appears blue.

See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/atmos/blusky.html
 
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That means for a neutral Hydrogen atom it is "Yes" but for any other atom, it is no, (unless electric field is applied). Am I right if I say that this is because there is only one electron in a neutral H atom ,as for one electron and one proton, the direction of dipole moment is possible to tell?!
 
Prashasti said:
That means for a neutral Hydrogen atom it is "Yes" but for any other atom, it is no, (unless electric field is applied). Am I right if I say that this is because there is only one electron in a neutral H atom ,as for one electron and one proton, the direction of dipole moment is possible to tell?!

It is a _no_ for the neutral hydrogen atom.

I must have explained things poorly if you got the other impression. The hydrogen atom, like all other atoms, must be analyzed via quantum mechanics. The "orbital electrons" are not located in a definite place, but instead have definite energy states. They "appear" as smeared out in an "electron cloud" - even when there is only one electron, as with hydrogen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital
 
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Now I got it!
 
Sorry. I know. I was a bit confused on where to post this query at as it comes under atomic physics and general physics, both - that is why I posted it twice. I didnt read the rules carefully- sorry.
 

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