1st Isomorphism thm for dihedral gps

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the isomorphism between the quotient group ##D_\infty/\langle R^n \rangle## and the dihedral group ##D_{2n}##. The original poster presents a homomorphism from ##D_\infty## to ##D_{2n}## and explores the kernel of this map.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the structure of the kernel of the homomorphism and question the implications of having elements of the form ##SR^k## versus ##R^k##. There is exploration of the conditions under which these elements can map to the identity in ##D_{2n}##.

Discussion Status

Some participants express confusion regarding the reasoning behind the exclusion of certain elements from the kernel. Clarifications are being sought about the implications of the group presentation and the nature of the elements in ##D_\infty##.

Contextual Notes

Participants are examining the implications of the group relations given in the presentation of ##D_\infty##, particularly focusing on the behavior of the generators and their powers.

Mr Davis 97
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Homework Statement


Prove that ##D_\infty/\langle R^n \rangle\cong D_{2n}##, where ##D_\infty=\langle R,S \mid S^2=e, SRS=R^{-1}\rangle##.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Pick ##g:\{R,S\} \to D_{2n}## such that ##g(R) = r## and ##g(S) = s##. We note that ##g(S)^2 = 1## and ##g(S)g(R)g(S)g(R)=1## since it is given in the presentation of ##D_{2n}## that ##s^2=1## and that ##srsr=1##. By the UMP for presentations there exists a unique homomorphism ##f: D_{\infty} \to D_{2n}## such that ##f(R)=r## and ##f(S)=s##.

This map ##f## is surjective because any word formed by the generators of ##D_{2n}## can be mapped to by the corresponding word in ##D_{\infty}## with ##r## replaced by ##R## and ##s## replaced by ##S##.

Let ##\Gamma## be an arbitrary word in the kernel of ##f## so that ##f(\Gamma) = 1##. Suppose that ##S## is a part of the word ##\Gamma##. Then ##f(\Gamma) \not = 1## since there will necessarily be an ##s## on the RHS. Hence only ##R## can be a part of this word, and the word must be an integral power of ##R^n## in order to map to ##1##, since otherwise the word will map to an element ##r^p## with ##p\in [0,n-1)##, which can never be ##1## (since the order of ##r## is ##n##). Hence ##\Gamma \in \langle R^n \rangle##. So ##\ker(f) = \langle R^n \rangle##

By the first isomorphism theorem, ##D_\infty/\langle R^n \rangle\cong D_{2n}##.
 
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I don't see why ##f(\Gamma) \neq 1##.

We can always bring ##\Gamma \in \operatorname{ker}(f)## into the form ##\Gamma = SR^k\; , \;k\in\mathbb{Z}\; , \;## or ##\Gamma=R^k##. The second case is easy. Now in the first case ##f(\Gamma)=1=sr^k## and thus ##s=r^k##, i.e. ##1=r^{2k}##. Since ##r^{2k}\in D_{2n}##, we now have ##n\,|\,k## or ##\Gamma = S(R^n)^l##. But how do you conclude from ##s=r^{n\cdot l}## that ##S\in \langle R^n\rangle\,?##

Theoretically there can be an ##s## on the RHS, e.g. ##\Gamma = SRSR## maps to ##1=srsr##. Sure, this is ##1##, but it shows that in principle more complex words ##\Gamma## can be mapped on ##1## even if they contain an ##S##.

Edit: Got it. ##s=r^k## is not possible and therefore ##\Gamma \neq SR^k## and ##\Gamma = R^k## is the only left possibility.
 
fresh_42 said:
I don't see why ##f(\Gamma) \neq 1##.

We can always bring ##\Gamma \in \operatorname{ker}(f)## into the form ##\Gamma = SR^k\; , \;k\in\mathbb{Z}\; , \;## or ##\Gamma=R^k##. The second case is easy. Now in the first case ##f(\Gamma)=1=sr^k## and thus ##s=r^k##, i.e. ##1=r^{2k}##. Since ##r^{2k}\in D_{2n}##, we now have ##n\,|\,k## or ##\Gamma = S(R^n)^l##. But how do you conclude from ##s=r^{n\cdot l}## that ##S\in \langle R^n\rangle\,?##

Theoretically there can be an ##s## on the RHS, e.g. ##\Gamma = SRSR## maps to ##1=srsr##. Sure, this is ##1##, but it shows that in principle more complex words ##\Gamma## can be mapped on ##1## even if they contain an ##S##.

Edit: Got it. ##s=r^k## is not possible and therefore ##\Gamma \neq SR^k## and ##\Gamma = R^k## is the only left possibility.
I'm a little confused. I see that we have two possibilities. If ##\Gamma = R^k## then we get that ##k## must be a multiple of ##n## because we must have that ##r^k=1##. But in the case ##\Gamma = SR^k## we get that ##r^{2k}=1##. How does this lead us to conclude that there is no such ##k## for which this holds, and hence no elements of form ##SR^k## are in the kernel?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
I'm a little confused. I see that we have two possibilities. If ##\Gamma = R^k## then we get that ##k## must be a multiple of ##n## because we must have that ##r^k=1##. But in the case ##\Gamma = SR^k## we get that ##r^{2k}=1##. How does this lead us to conclude that there is no such ##k## for which this holds, and hence no elements of form ##SR^k## are in the kernel?
No, that's what my "edit" says. It took me a moment to see (likely due to the current time here).

If ##\Gamma = SR^k## then ##s=r^k##. But ##s\notin \langle r\rangle \subseteq D_{2n}##, so this is not possible.
 
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fresh_42 said:
No, that's what my "edit" says. It took me a moment to see (likely due to the current time here).

If ##\Gamma = SR^k## then ##s=r^k##. But ##s\notin \langle r\rangle \subseteq D_{2n}##, so this is not possible.
One last thing. How do I know that the elements of ##D_{\infty}## always look like either ##SR^k## or ##R^k##? i.e how can we tell from the presentation that ##D_{\infty} = \{R^{-2},R^{-1}, \dots, 1,R,R^2, \dots, SR^{-1}, S, SR^1,SR^2, \dots\}##
 
Last edited:
We have ##S^2=1## so no higher powers as ##1## are possible for ##S##. Then we have ##SRS=R^{-1}## which is ##SR=R^{-1}S^{-1}=R^{-1}S## so we can always change the order such that ##S## will end up on one side of ##R## to the expense of powers of ##R##, which we are not interested in. We can allow integers, so it doesn't matter if it changes.
 
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