4 probe conductivity in discs (Smits)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Nony
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Conductivity Probe
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the 4 probe conductivity measurement technique as described in Smits' 1958 paper. Participants explore the theoretical and practical implications of correction factors for conductivity measurements in cylindrical samples, such as semiconductor wafers and ceramic specimens. The conversation includes inquiries about the difficulty level of related problems in classical electromagnetism (E&M) and potential extensions to the original work.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express curiosity about the difficulty of deriving correction factors for the 4 probe method using the method of images, questioning whether it is a routine problem in undergraduate or graduate E&M courses.
  • There is a suggestion that slight deviations from the centerline of the pellet could affect measurement accuracy, with a call for exploration of this effect, as no correction factors currently exist for such deviations.
  • Concerns are raised about how warping of the pellet during compaction might influence the accuracy of conductivity measurements, indicating a need for further investigation.
  • One participant mentions that the problem can be approached using potential theory and suggests that solutions may involve advanced techniques like solving Laplace equations or conformal mapping, which could be classified at different educational levels.
  • Another participant notes that the grinding of the sample to create a specific boundary shape could simplify the problem, although they acknowledge that the thickness of the sample may still necessitate numerical solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the difficulty level of the problem or the educational context in which it fits. There are multiple competing views regarding the applicability of numerical methods and the implications of sample geometry on measurement accuracy.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential complexity of the problem due to the geometry of the samples and the limitations of existing correction factors. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the educational classification of the problem and the techniques required for accurate solutions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and educators in physics and engineering, particularly those focused on electromagnetism, materials science, and experimental techniques in conductivity measurements.

Nony
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
See ref (Smits, 1958, Bell Technical Journal: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1538-7305.1958.tb03883.x/abstract (also Google will show a pdf copy that is not pay-walled)

The paper describes correction factors for doing 4 probe conductivity measurements on cylinders (semiconductor wafers, sintered ceramic specimens, etc.). Intuitively, it makes sense to me that there would be these sorts of correction factors (paths of current flow are in parallel, but going deeper into the sample, would cover a longer distance, thus higher resistance). I have used the paper routinely, but IANAP and I never verified the paper itself--just plug and chugged the factors from the table.

1. Was wondering, for those who are physicists how "hard" is this as a problem (to do the method of images and create the table of correction factors for geometry)? Is it a routine HW problem in undergrad or graduate E&M? If so what text (edition and page #)? If not, I would think it would be nice HW problem because it actually is a practical result and kind of an intuitive geometry. If too easy for grad E&M than junior year E&M? It definitely feels harder than intro physics, which is the only course I have taken.

2. Also, I don't know if this has been done yet, but some extension of the paper would be useful:

A. Slight deviations from centerline (in and perpendicular to the 4 points line) of pellet. How much does the true answer change, based on using the assumption that we are centered? Note, that there are no correction factors for this since you sort of "by eye" center the sample. [I guess if you had an industrial, repeating process, you could build a jig, but this is not the normal instrument.]

B. How much will warping of the pellet affect the true answer versus measured? [Uniaxially pressed ceramic pellets usually have a slight but visible warping from strains created in the specimen during compaction prior to heating.]

[It might be more "easy" classical physics calculation, but would still be very nice for people who just use the instrument and want more corrections! (The people who make new material samples are not the type to derive E&M correction factors.) Even if you think the result is trivial, could be more HW problems for the courses.]
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Is my question too hard or too easy? Help, IANAP. I don't even want to know an answer, I just want to know how hard a question is and how/where it would fit into classical E&M? Undergrad? Grad? Neglected topic? [I hope not the last, since this is actually a practical result and not just a math drill.]
 
I glanced at the first two pages. For an infinite planar sample, this problem can be solved using "potential theory." Solutions can be obtained directly from solving the Laplace equations in elliptic cylinder coordinates, or possibly by conformal mapping. The former involves Mathieu functions, so would be conventionally classified as graduate level, while the latter approach would probably be senior level except that conformal mapping is an "obsolete" technique that is often no longer taught in modern curricula. The presence of rectangular or circular boundaries is a complication that, I would guess, makes it insoluble without numerical calculation.

BTW, grinding the sample so that its boundary has the shape of a confocal ellipse (one whose foci are exactly the positions of the two excitation electrodes) would restore this to an analytically soluble problem, using the methods mentioned.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Nony
Thanks so much! Exactly the type of answer I wanted. The math comments very helpful.

So I guess Smits used numerical methods in 1958? Do you all assign HW problems that require numerical methods?

The grinding the boundary idea is neat, thanks. I would think the non-negligible thickness would still require numerical solution though? It's not a thin film. Typical instrument has the 4 points in 1 mm spacing. So a Si wafer or a ceramic HtSc pellet has thickness on the order of the spacing or larger.

P.s. If you can't tell, I love this paper! Even though I never knew the E&M involved in it. Those correction factors were sooooo nifty.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
401
  • · Replies 72 ·
3
Replies
72
Views
11K
Replies
1
Views
3K