8.9 earthquake in Japan: tsunami warnings

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    Earthquake Japan
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An 8.9 magnitude earthquake struck near the east coast of Honshu, Japan, triggering tsunami warnings and resulting in significant destruction, including a reported 10-meter wave hitting Sendai. Initial reports indicate at least 200 to 300 bodies were found in the northeastern coastal city, with the death toll expected to rise. The earthquake caused issues at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, prompting evacuations and concerns over cooling system failures, though officials stated there was no radiation leak. The tsunami is projected to affect areas across the Pacific, with warnings issued for the U.S. West Coast and Hawaii. The situation remains critical as aftershocks continue and rescue efforts are underway.
  • #331
OmCheeto said:
I usually spell the phrase as I hear it. To be truthful, that's pretty much all I know how to say in those 30 or so https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3045669&postcount=73". It's a silly hobby, but an excellent conversation starter when meeting people from different lands. Om cheeto means "I know nothing" in Cantonese.

But I have the feeling we are going to hear a lot of "Nanimo shiranai", from a few Japanese exec's in the next few months/years. Though I may be inappropriately projecting my own prejudices based on http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/26/citigroup-exec-forgetful-on-witness-stand-in-nyc/" .

You'll hear this instead: "Taisetsu na minna, yurugarbagee onegaishimasu! Makemashimagarbagea Kame-Sama!"
"Pretty super please, all who know me, forgive me, I lose [in the formality of 'Go] god!" <--again, spirit of, not direct translation.
 
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  • #332
More bad news:

French nuclear safety authority ASN upgrades the accident to second highest level
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsvt.se%2F2.58360%2F1.2361292%2Futskriftsvanligt_format%3Fprinterfriendly%3Dtrue&act=url

State of the Fukushima nuclear power plant is now six on the seven-grade scale accidents, said French nuclear safety authority ASN.
A six on the INES scale would mean that the accident in Fukushima is the most serious nuclear accident since Chernobyl in 1986, which was set at level seven.
...
One reason why the Internet on Tuesday was full of statements and rumor, are that many people distrust the Japanese energy company Tepco which owns the stricken reactor. This was confirmed by the fact that the Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan on Tuesday, according to the Financial Times, went unannounced into a meeting with Tepco and requested information about what is really going on in the company's nuclear power plants.


A new M6.0 quake shook Tokyo over one minute.

Live streaming NHK World:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv
 
  • #333
DevilsAvocado said:
More bad news:

French nuclear safety authority ASN upgrades the accident to second highest level



A new M6.0 quake shook Tokyo over one minute.

Live streaming NHK World:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

Whoa... that is, culturally... HUGE. I can only compare that to the president walking into an open session of congress and challenging people on the floor.
 
  • #334
Angry Citizen said:
... Also, I can't help but point out to everyone else that this thread is a really, really bad time to be chatting about 'stress relief' and assorted other garbage.

Agree 100%, talk about guns at a moment like this makes me sick.
 
  • #335
Astronuc said:
US utilities, especially with plants that have BWRs with Mk I containment, have already started review processes on their plant designs and emergency operating procedures, to ensure to the extent possible, that this event will not happen in the US.
I hope that this will help the US nuclear energy industry go forward.
 
  • #336
dlgoff said:
I hope that this will help the US nuclear energy industry go forward.

More info:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/japan-quake-nuclear-ge-idUSN1227232120110312"
 
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  • #337
Wow... One person I've never heard of, and one I count a friend both made ill by comments of firearms in the context of (actual) stress relief when I thought a friend might be dead. Yeah, I can see why you'd be so disgusted. :rolleyes:
I can honestly say that I'm completely unmovedl truly, anything short of either of you bursting into flames would leave me unmoved right now, and I'd only put out one of you. :smile:

On another note, dlgoff, I wouldn't count on it... the combination of this event with the hysteria in our media and anti-nuclear groups would seem to argue against that.
At this point the best we can hope is that this remains an industrial disaster above all, and not a wide-spread radiological disaster. I'd add, it's not as though Japan has tons of land to spare... a wide exlusion zone and sarcophagous is not exactly an ideal solution.

If I were in the coal/LNG lobby, I'd be flogging this already, behind the scenes at LEAST.
On that note, China and Japan are sending a rather large amount of LNG to shore up Japan's grid.
 
  • #338
DevilsAvocado said:
More info:

FACTBOX-U.S. nuclear plants similar to Japan plant in peril – Reuters
That's an exaggeration. That's not a factual statement as much as it is hyperbole.

I can appreciate the public's anger, anxiety and distress, but I don't appreciate silly statements or misrepresentations.

Perhaps they are in political peril, but not technical peril. Failure is not imminent.
 
  • #339
dlgoff said:
I hope that this will help the US nuclear energy industry go forward.

No idea about US, but Germans are already using the event here as an argument against us (us Poles) building nuclear power plant. From http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/das-grosse-nachdenken/3950386.html:

The Polish plans to build two nuclear power plants by 2030, including one in Gdansk, trouble in Germany. "Nuclear power is no solution," said Berlin government spokesman Richard Meng. Although the plans for a site are directly on the German border from the table, but that was not enough: "One can only hope that the nuclear disaster in Japan leads to rethink. And this means that. Disembark in Germany and not go into Poland, "Brandenburg's Prime Minister Matthias Platzeck (SPD), the Atomic Energy designated always as irresponsible and as a dangerous risk technology, told the Tagesspiegel:" I hope that our Polish neighbors now come to conclusions which are contemporary."

(Sorry for a lousy translation, that's Google, not me).
 
  • #340
Astronuc said:
That's an exaggeration. That's not a factual statement as much as it is hyperbole.

I can appreciate the public's anger, anxiety and distress, but I don't appreciate silly statements or misrepresentations.

Perhaps they are in political peril, but not technical peril. Failure is not imminent.

I have to say, it's not the happiest thing in the world to see this hysteria leach into PF, where truly we should all know better. I can feel that... anxiety... however, and I think in your case knowledge is a vast cooling pool for that kind of experience.

Maybe someday people will get the message: it's not Nuclear or sunshine and wind... it's Nuclear or Coal/LNG. Hmmm.. coal mining and firing, fracking... or the very rare radiological event usually limited to old reactors that should have been serviced, replaced, or re-thought.

Maybe dying from asthma complications or other industrial pollutants is just so much fun that nobody wants to risk some of our vast and empty country on nuclear plants of new design and adequate storage?

Wait... I thought we were supposed to leave our 'other garbage' such as the politics of nuclear power at the door! Curses... foiled by the flow of conversation again.
 
  • #341
Borek said:
No idea about US, but Germans are already using the event here as an argument against us (us Poles) building nuclear power plant. From http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/das-grosse-nachdenken/3950386.html:



(Sorry for a lousy translation, that's Google, not me).

GERMANY has the... um... has the testicular fortitude to argue that Poland should or shouldn't do ANYTHING?! I'd laugh, but it's too ridiculous to be funny, and too grim.
 
  • #342
Astronuc said:
That's an exaggeration. That's not a factual statement as much as it is hyperbole.

I can appreciate the public's anger, anxiety and distress, but I don't appreciate silly statements or misrepresentations.

Perhaps they are in political peril, but not technical peril. Failure is not imminent.

I don’t know if this is a 'translation issue'? But as I interpret this they mean the "Japan(ese) plant in peril" = Fukushima I

?
 
  • #343
nismaratwork said:
At this point the best we can hope is that this remains an industrial disaster above all, and not a wide-spread radiological disaster.

Astronuc said:
Failure is not imminent.

If Japan can get this thing under control, wouldn't that be a good for the industry? Too early maybe to even consider I guess.
 
  • #344
DevilsAvocado said:
I don’t know if this is a 'translation issue'? But as I interpret this they mean the "Japan(ese) plant in peril" = Fukushima I

?

We're all in mortal peril of dying someday... that doesn't mean I should walk behind you saying, "You're going to die man!" Tone and presentation matter along with the conclusion...

Anyway, it's Fukishimi's Daichi that's probably the most worrisome at the moment.
 
  • #345
dlgoff said:
If Japan can get this thing under control, wouldn't that be a good for the industry? Too early maybe to even consider I guess.

I really don't know, that's definitely an Astronuc question only.
 
  • #346
If Japan can get this thing under control, wouldn't that be a good for the industry? Too early maybe to even consider I guess.

I'm already fighting to quell pissed off anti-nuke nuts, so no, I think the damage has already been done. Remember, nuclear power has ATOMS, and is therefore going to kill us all.
 
  • #347
Angry Citizen said:
I'm already fighting to quell pissed off anti-nuke nuts, so no, I think the damage has already been done. Remember, nuclear power has ATOMS, and is therefore going to kill us all.

Why is it that STILL, when people hear, "nuclear power" you only see mushroom clouds in their eyes? Don't people bother to read anymore, to learn or have even the most BASIC critical eye!?

No... right, what am I thinking... let's shovel some more coal boys, nothing can go wrong there... not even radioactive isotopes... oh wait.
 
  • #348
There ought to be a required course for people that explains the science behind controversial subjects. Then, maybe, people won't go off spouting opinions born of ignorance as much.

People thinking "meltdown"=="thermonuclear explosion" really annoy me.
 
  • #349
Worse is people thinking this is Chernobyl part deux. As far as I can tell, Chernobyl is actually impossible at this facility.
 
  • #350
jhae2.718 said:
There ought to be a required course for people that explains the science behind controversial subjects. Then, maybe, people won't go off spouting opinions born of ignorance as much.

People thinking "meltdown"=="thermonuclear explosion" really annoy me.

Yeah... it seems people don't grasp 'criticality indicent', 'radiation release', 'fire with fallout', and 'A FREAKING BOMB' as separate concepts.

It's... grrrrrrrrr...
 
  • #351
This link really put the disaster into perspective for me:

http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/0,113335.html
 
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  • #352
I watched a news report that indicated the US may be asked to "spray" the reactor (didn't specify the liquid to be sprayed) from a helocopter - is this a "Hail Mary" or a planned procedure?
 
  • #353
What... would we spray it with?
 
  • #354
I think the helicopter reports are in regards to the spent fuel ponds. A few helicopters dumping water could keep the spent fuel from being exposed without risking personnel.
 
  • #355
Angry Citizen said:
I think the helicopter reports are in regards to the spent fuel ponds. A few helicopters dumping water could keep the spent fuel from being exposed without risking personnel.

Hmmmm... that seems really dangerous to me, but then, not as bad as letting spent rods burn again...
 
  • #356
You know, given the amount of Polonium 210 in tobacco (result of Lead->Radon), I wonder if there are people taking fat drags on a butt and worrying about a distant nuclear plant? Iroooooonnnnyyyy.
 
  • #357
It seems like while people are screaming about hysteria and "You're going to die man!", they completely forget to even read the information – and jump to hasty conclusions about everything.

This is that facts, for those who don’t even bother to click the link (emphasis mine):

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/japan-quake-nuclear-ge-idUSN1227232120110312

FACTBOX-U.S. nuclear plants SIMILAR to Japan plant in peril (Reuters)

Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:39pm EST

March 12 (Reuters) - Japan's Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1 reactor that had an explosion and radiation release was a General Electric Co (GE.N) Mark 1 boiling water reactor type.
[ID:nN12287054] [ID:nN12275226]

There are 23 GE Mark 1 reactors operating at U.S. nuclear power plants.

GE has rolled out several versions of the Mark 1, and some of the U.S. reactors could be slightly different than the Daiichi Unit 1 reactor.

The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said ALL OF THE 104 REACTORS IN THE UNITED STATES, including the Mark 1 reactors listed below, WERE OPERATING SAFELY.

The following lists the Mark 1 reactors in the United States, according to data from the NRC and the Nuclear Information and Resource Service, which is opposed to nuclear power and is critical of the Mark 1 design.

Reactor Location Size (MW) Year
Browns Ferry 1 Decatur, AL 1065 1974
Browns Ferry 2 Decatur, AL 1104 1975
Browns Ferry 3 Decatur, AL 1105 1977
Brunswick 1 Southport, NC 938 1976
Brunswick 2 Southport, NC 920 1975
Cooper Nebraska City, NE 770 1974
Dresden 2 Morris, IL 867 1970
Dresden 3 Morris, IL 867 1971
Duane Arnold Cedar Rapids, IA 580 1975
Hatch 1 Baxley, GA 876 1975
Hatch 2 Baxley, GA 883 1979
Fermi 2 Monroe, MI 1122 1988
Hope Creek Hancock's Brdg, NJ 1161 1986
Fitzpatrick Oswego, NY 854 1976
Monticello Monticello, MN 572 1971
Nine Mile Point 1 Oswego, NY 621 1969
Oyster Creek Toms River, NJ 615 1969
Peach Bottom 2 Lancaster, PA 1112 1974
Peach Bottom 3 Lancaster, PA 1112 1974
Pilgrim Plymouth, MA 685 1972
Quad Cities 1 Moline, IL 867 1972
Quad Cities 2 Moline, IL 867 1972
Vermont Yankee Vernon, VT 620 1972

(Reporting by Scott DiSavino in New York and Bernie Woodall in
Detroit; Editing by Xavier Briand)


Astronuc, if this could be interpreted as anything else than; there are 23 GE Mark 1 reactors in the U.S. and they are all operating safely – please let me know, and I will delete this and previous post.
 
  • #358
Why would any American nuclear reactors be malfunctioning? I figured this information was a given.
 
  • #359
I think you have to ask the people screaming, I have no idea where they got this info from.
 
  • #360
dlgoff said:
If Japan can get this thing under control, wouldn't that be a good for the industry? Too early maybe to even consider I guess.
If TEPCO can get it under control, and at the moment, we expect that they are doing everything to control the situation - but we lack information on how successful they are. It's premature to draw conclusions.

At the moment, US nuclear utilities are reviewing their plants and operations to ensure this will not happen in the US.
 

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