A Question about Hooke's Law....

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    Hooke's law Law
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of Hooke's Law, specifically the nature of the force (F) involved in extending or compressing a spring. Participants explore whether F refers to the continuous force applied to extend the spring or the force required to maintain the spring at a certain extension (X). The conversation includes theoretical considerations and implications of different force applications.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the force F is the continuous force applied to extend the spring or the force needed to hold it at distance X, suggesting the former would be greater.
  • Another participant challenges the justification for the claim that the continuous force would be greater, asking for clarification on the reasoning behind it.
  • It is noted that applying a constant force from zero extension leads to oscillation around the equilibrium position, particularly if the spring has mass.
  • A participant explains that if Hooke's Law is framed in terms of the force applied by the user, the force needed to keep the spring at a distance X is proportional to X, indicating that a larger force is required for greater extensions.
  • There is mention of the possibility of applying a constant force or a sinusoidal force to the spring, leading to oscillations, while the restoring force remains proportional to the extension or compression for small amplitudes.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the force is dependent on the current position of the spring, stating that for any extension X, the force required to prevent movement is kX, and any force greater than kX will cause further stretching.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of force F in the context of Hooke's Law, with no consensus reached on whether it pertains to the continuous application of force or the force needed to maintain a position. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these interpretations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the nuances in understanding Hooke's Law, particularly regarding the definitions of force in different contexts. There are unresolved assumptions about the behavior of the spring under varying forces and the implications of mass on oscillation.

Kaneki123
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Okay...Hook's Law is stated as ''the force (F) needed to extend or compress a spring by some distance X is proportional to that distance. That is: F = kX (Wikipedia)'' And further on this topic there is a statement that
''Hooke's law for a spring is often stated under the convention that F is the restoring (reaction) force exerted by the spring on whatever is pulling its free end''...
My question is that, Is the force F the force which we apply continuosly for some time to extend the spring upto some distance X, or is it the force needed to ''hold'' the stretched spring at the distance X (the former force will obviously be greater than the second)? If it is the first force than should'nt it be the second one?
 
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Kaneki123 said:
the former force will obviously be greater
hmmm. What is your argument to justify that statement? Do you just mean that it would be necessary to accelerate the mass of the spring by a finite amount`?
 
Kaneki123 said:
Is the force F the force which we apply continuosly for some time to extend the spring upto some distance X,
If you apply a constant force, starting from zero extension, you will end up with an oscillation around the equilibrium position. (If the spring has finite mass).
 
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If you want to state Hooke's law in terms of a force that YOU apply, then the force necessary to KEEP the spring compressed (or extended) by a distance x is proportional to x. Obviously then, if you extend it more, you will need to apply a larger force to keep it extended by that amount.
Of course, nothing prevents you from exerting whatever force you want. As sophiecentaur said, you could just apply a constant force, for example, by hanging a mass from a vertically suspended spring. In which case, the mass will oscillate about the equilibrium position.
You could also apply a force varying sinusoidally with time, and force the spring to oscillate at the same frequency as the applied force.
In all cases, the RESTORING force exerted by the spring will be proportional to the extension or compression, provided the amplitude of oscillations is small.
 
Kaneki123 said:
My question is that, Is the force F the force which we apply continuosly for some time to extend the spring upto some distance X, or is it the force needed to ''hold'' the stretched spring at the distance X (the former force will obviously be greater than the second)? If it is the first force than should'nt it be the second one?
The force is only dependent on the current position, not the change in position. For each value of x, the law applies. The final value, X, will need a force of kX to prevent it from moving. Any force greater than kX will stretch the spring past X. Similarly, for any value of x<X, a force of kX will accelerate the mass to X.
 

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