A Question on Goldstein and D'Alembert's Principle

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    Goldstein Principle
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of D'Alembert's Principle as presented in Goldstein's text, specifically focusing on the derivation of Lagrange's equations. Participants explore the implications of the chain rule for partial differentiation in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the chain rule for partial differentiation as a foundational operator for understanding the equations in Goldstein's work.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on whether the chain rule applies to functions dependent on generalized coordinates and time, questioning the treatment of explicit time dependence.
  • A later reply confirms that if a function does not explicitly depend on time, the partial derivative with respect to time can be omitted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of the chain rule but engage in clarifying its implications regarding explicit time dependence. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved as participants explore the nuances of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the dependence of functions on time and generalized coordinates, which may affect the interpretation of the equations discussed.

coca-cola
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Hey all,

I am reading Goldstein and I am at a point where I can't follow along. He has started with D'Alembert's Principle and he is showing that Lagrange's equation can be derived from it. He states the chain rule for partial differentiation:
\frac{d\textbf{r}_i}{dt}=\sum_k \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}_i}{\partial q_k}\dot{q}_k+\frac{\partial \mathbf{r}_i}{\partial t}

Then he states, by the equation above, that:
\frac{d}{dt}\frac{d\mathbf{r}_i}{dq_j}=\sum_k \frac{\partial^2 \textbf{r}_i}{\partial q_j \partial q_k}\dot{q}_k+\frac{\partial^2 \mathbf{r}_i}{\partial q_j\partial t}

He further states from the first equation that:
\frac{\partial \mathbf{v}_i}{\partial \dot{q}_j}=\frac{\partial \mathbf{r}_i}{\partial q_j}

I have tried to connect the dots but I cannot succeed. Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Think the first relation as a definition for an operator

\frac{d}{dt}=\sum_k \frac{\partial}{\partial q_k}\dot{q}_k+\frac{\partial }{\partial t}

The second equation follows immdiately from applying ##\frac{d}{dt}## to ##\frac{d\mathbf{r}_i}{dq_j}## and the last one from applying ##\frac{\partial}{\partial \dot q_j}## to the first equation.
 
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Thanks!

So is the definition simply the chain rule of a function that depends on q_1, q_2,...q_N, and t? If the function had no explicit dependence on t, even though the generalized coordinates did, would you simply drop the partial with respect to t?
 
coca-cola said:
Thanks!

So is the definition simply the chain rule of a function that depends on q_1, q_2,...q_N, and t? If the function had no explicit dependence on t, even though the generalized coordinates did, would you simply drop the partial with respect to t?
Yes, certainly.

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