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A sci-fi trilogy background. real science advice needed PLEASE!

  1. Apr 5, 2013 #1
    I thought I just made a fool of myself trying to post this thread in a wrong place on this forum,and one of precious admins had deleted my thread and put a warning on me, LOL, I just wanted it to be more real and intense. Well, a warning is intensive enough, so, I'd better play smart this time.

    This is What I Replied to the admin who deleted my thread in explaining the misunderstanding:

    I didn't mean to raise up a new theory, but instead simply raised up a question that if it could be applied in mainstream theories, I did use the word "theory" that only because the content is quite a bit longer than usual. In this case, I only just needed help if someone could tell the content makes little sense or not. It's a little bit hard for me to originally type a lot on PF. well, since it's deleted, it seems doesn't matter anymore.
    My only purpose is to write a Sci-Fi story out of it, that's why I weaved up a theory as background for the story, and so the story could be more convincingly for readers,and I intended to make it eventually a short cg film.
    I had already gone through WiKipedia, all those information are no better than the school ones, It's becoming common sense and it would be lacking of imagination if a sci-fi story is based on those theories.Since my story's content is about the Doom's day that a Comet coming back to the Sun and affected the path of Mercury, and caused it to crush on the Sun.then it leads to human's Doom's day. and for humans had the largest plan setting up bases on Mars(shooting rockets to the Mars,setting up GPS on Mars,mining facilities, artificial moon etc. ) and eventually make it home, that's a bigger story,since the title is the first rain on Mars for that chapter. well I'm still working on it.
    It is currently rare to see some Sci-fi stories which don't contain elements of Aliens FTL/time travel, sub-space, ZPM, parallel universes, etc. I just want to write something that's basically based on human's own strength to survival on global disasters,and about the space travel firstly through the solar system.

    The original post is below:

    Hi, there, I'm wondering how is our solar system working.
    From all the information I've been taught and self-learnt from wikipedia. A theory comes to my mind.
    relativity of gravitation
    the earth has gravitational effect to the moon, and the sun has gravitational effect to the earth. which are not equal between relative planets. if the moon has 1/6 gravitational effect of earth towards earth, then the earth/moon system would be forming into a similar binary star system. and the solar system would be a multiple star system which leads to chaos. I understand that the current knowledge suggests that the sun has the most of the mass of the entire solar system, but isn't that purely based on calculations, and those calculations are based on newton's theory? so, the question is, would that theory be wrong? and then the calculation is wrong?

    The sun is having relative gravitational effect towards all 8 planets. and from a bigger picture, that the further ones are filled with gases and dirts on their surfaces while the closer ones are rocky.and then take a closer look at them, the Mercury seemed to be shrinking before and the sun is still burning its atmosphere out without refilling, and water patterns seems exist on Venus. Our Earth had experienced many times of volcano eruptions and earthquakes.

    which brought up an idea that all planets are moving towards to the sun one after another.

    1,The Mercury is getting smaller and smaller, despite it is estimated billions years old, but when Mercury is young it is still Mercury,but not the same time not at the same position in solar system.Mercury could be the oldest planet currently still exist in our solar system,but it's inevitable that is going to be eaten by the Sun very soon.

    2,The Venus used to be on current Earth's orbit circulating the Sun while Earth is on Mars's orbit.

    3,The Volcano eruptions and Earthquakes is about to get the lighter element to the surface and the heavier elements towards the Earth core. It had been making Earth smaller and smaller,from being smaller it's getting closer and closer to the Sun. and now We could image how Dinosaurs extinction happened. It was when Earth was younger and bigger, Its surface's gravity force is lighter, and then the life form could be bigger, bigger trees and bigger animals. Dinosaurs couldn't survive from the gravity changes on Earth. partially because of the evolution of gene is irreversible.
    That also explains why are there so many aluminum on Earth's surface.

    4,The Mars is getting more and more environmental friendly to organic life. It is a rising star that's going to be the next Earth.

    5,From further gas/dirt clouded planets those clouds is getting away as getting closer to the Sun.

    potential test

    since It's because of the relativity of gravity, which suggests different elements from different planets are relatively with different gravitational force,So, the current applicable test is to get a very accurate scale, and a piece of moon rock.and a weight, made from Earth materials, that weighs the same as the moon rock when the Moon is directly above.

    The test is simple - weigh both objects when the Moon is directly below the tester (i.e. on the opposite side of Earth). If the theory is correct - that the Moon attracts moon rocks more than the Earth - then the change from the Moon overhead to the Moon underfoot will be a lot bigger for the Moon rock than for the Earth weight; if they're equal with the Moon above, then the Moon rock should measure as heavier than the Earth weight when the moon is directly below.
    (it's an idea, not sure if it works)

    Raised questions

    1, How do you explain Pluto? It's further out than the rest, and rocky.

    A:Pluto is in a very far distance, the Sun could not heat it up yet as it currently remained that way. the whole gases turning into rocky planets is an idea about how heavy elements get closer to the planet's core while the lighter elements getting to the surface. It would be more like a self-stabilizing process and it only works relative to the sun's gravitation force and heat.it is easy to see those standing-by products being in the waiting position in a automatic processing line.

    2,But we can tell what elements are present in the different planets, using spectroscopy. So we know that Jupiter, for example, is mainly hydrogen and helium, not just dust.

    A: Using the spectroscopy could only estimate the elements on a planet's surfaces not to mention Jupiter is currently heavily clouded. from what We know, hydrogen and helium are very light elements on Earth.and if spectroscopy is really that amazing, then it might be not that hard for us to find goldmines on Earth.

    3,It is known that Jupiter's gravity is a lot stronger than Earth's.

    A:yes it is, for itself and its own moons. but It is possible that Sun's gravitational effect towards earth might even be stronger than the Jupiter's. and another assumption is that Sun's gravitational force has an un-equivalent linear level.

    4,But the weight of an element can be found by adding up the weights of the protons and neutrons and electrons that make it up. A proton isn't going to change weight by being in a different element.

    A:The weights are gravitational effect towards the core of Earth.I don't know if there's anyone ever did that experiment to weigh a proton.and is it weighed on Earth sea level? but that's totally another story since I'm talking about elements here,there should be more elements out there,some of them are heavier and some of them are lighter.

    5,Why would the Earth be getting smaller? every now and then, We get a meteor landing-wound't that be making Earth bigger?

    A:From the heavier matter(elements) goes down and the lighter matter(elements) gets above,every planet should be getting smaller and smaller as long as it's staying with the Sun.Meteors would be very slightly increasing the time in a planet's getting smaller process.ever seen a cooking vegetable process? you're adding salt and other materials to it but doesn't stop it getting smaller. In this case, Meteors are like salt you put on vegetables.

    6,And the sun's gravity affects the moon's orbit as well, And both the Sun and the Moon have a gravitational effect on Earth(i.e.tides).

    A:Yes, they do relatively affect each other, that's why I brought this relative gravity idea up in the first place.

    7,Actually, the moon's gravitational effect on Earth is stronger than the Sun's. Consider; high tide depends on the position of the Moon, not the position of the Sun. The Moon's tides are higher than the Sun's tides; therefore the Moon has a greater gravitational effect on the Earth than the Sun does.

    A:Not really, if the Moon's gravitational effect on Earth is stronger than the Sun's then, it would be Earth going around the Moon a little bit too, forming into a binary star system. Since it is only the moon going around Earth, and the Earth is only going around the Sun,and the Sun is probably going around something bigger. and then,I can only assume that the Moon's gravitational effect on Earth may not be stronger than the Sun's, It might be the Sun's gravitational effect on Earth appears to be constant, The Moon just changes it while circling Earth, and We could only observe the changes.

    It took me quite a while a weave something like this, Could anyone in this field please advice me with professional knowledge, thanks in advance. Your name will be mentioned on the list(only if allowed) as science advisor if I'm able to publish it a book or a short CG film. (I'm only a hobbiest photographer and writer, I can only do these kinds of stuff using my extra time.)

    Please keep in mind this is only a sci-fi story's back ground, I have no intention nor do I have the ability to establish a real theory out of it.

    Regards
    Lee
    Many Thanks!!!!
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 6, 2013 #2

    Filip Larsen

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    Gold Member

    While you are to be commended for showing interest in wanting to know how our solar system, with gravity and all, and while I do understand that it sometimes is funny to dream stuff up (especially in the context of science fiction), the stuff you present here is "ramblings" in the context of science. I have not tried to infer the probable original meaning behind everything you have written in your post, but if, as you claim, this stuff is what you get from reading Wikipedia, then either you need glasses or there are some pages out there that needs some serious editing.

    If you want to understand how our solar system really works, the best course of action (like in any endeavor regarding science) is to forget these rambling and find some good teaching material about it or, better yet, attend some course or class that fits your educational level where a real live person can explain things for you.

    If you really want, I guess this forum can help to explain why each of the basic assumptions you make above (for instance, that planets are spiraling in towards the Sun) are wrong, but I wouldn't advice it. Understanding how things work is hard if you are only presented with how things doesn't work. It is usually much better to get a basic understanding how things work first and then on top of that try to understand why this or that idea then won't work.

    Of course, in the context science-fiction, all of the above is said on the assumption that you came to this forum in want of the science in you science-fiction to be correct, so if you are only interested in making, say, a fantasy story then I guess there nothing inherently wrong about a universe where planets spiral towards their star, for one. While I personally prefer my science-fiction to have good science, I must acknowledge that there are some good "non-science" stories out there and even blatantly wrong science do not necessarily make a bad story.
     
  4. Apr 6, 2013 #3
    Hi, Filip,Thanks for reading, In your precious comment,towards attitude and experiences are exactly what I want, It is in the story I'm currently writing, a character I'm trying to build up,that is going off the main stream, with some different opinions and discovered the doom is coming, something like that. there would be debating scenarios with the main stream science group.

    For the "ramblings" stuff, it's the best I'm currently have so far, and based on the story structure, that requires something similar for humans to launch a large scale plan(it looks cool for matte paintings and CG) to establish a colony onto Mars. Could you please suggest what Idea should be more realistic based on following scenarios,
    1,there should be at least one scientist that had been disavowed by the main-stream science group.
    2,the main-stream might not be wrong, but very bureaucratic and arrogant.
    (that creates the contrast.)

    but after all, without serious "ramblings" stuff, Sci-fi could just be documentaries. I did rambling based on some materials that appears to be on Wikipedia, But it's basically my original rambling idea.And it's nothing more than an idea, but it's good to see the word "rambling", although personally I didn't want to go that far either. Your suggestions are highly appreciated, and saved my time for going through mountains of books.

    To be honest,I didn't take much education in physics, although I'm a fan of it, that explains why I'm only writing sci-fi stories while you guys are doing real contribution in science in real lives.

    Regards
    Thanks

     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  5. Apr 7, 2013 #4

    Filip Larsen

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    Gold Member

    I'm no expert in what can go catastrophic wrong in nature, but if it has to involve at least a whole planet then there are the obvious:

    Impact with a large or very fast orbital body. To fit your bill, the impactor must be unknown to general scientific community (which hints that the impactor must be small and fast) and and the "one scientist" will then discover the impactor by some unusual method that the general community think is wrong. Perhaps something like that the impactor has been deemed a hazard by some aliens long time ago after which they fitted it with warning radio beacon, and now our "one scientist" operates deep space radio telescopes and detects this beacon signal and somehow correctly decodes it into a warning much to the disbelief of the community.

    Impending solar flare or similar [4] [5] that will "fry" the inner planets. To fit your bill our "one scientist" must somehow have detected some anomalies in the Suns behavior that do not fit accepted theories for how the Sun works, but it does fit a corrected model that now predicts a huge solar flare is imminent.

    Gamma ray burst [3], or similar, in our galaxy that threatens to "sterilize" the planets in our solar system. Our "one scientist" have again found some new evidence in a nearby star for stellar evolution that the community do not accept. Unfortunately, as the story go, the new model indicates the star is ready to go supernova.

    Vacuum metastability event [2] or similar [1] that threatens the whole universe. Probably hard to do a story on if it has to end well, since this involves the whole universe and there is no place to hide or run to.

    There are plenty of sci-fi stories out there that involves some level of catastrophe, so its there are many ideas to "borrow" from. The hard part, I guess, is to find an original catastrophe.


    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe
    [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_metastability_event#Vacuum_metastability_event
    [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst
    [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System
    [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Earth
     
  6. Apr 7, 2013 #5
    Thank you so much, I'll get back when I'm finished reading. It seems to me that a crazy mad Daniel Jackson in StarGate serials never gets tired, you're right about there're plenty of catastrophe stories, but it's really hard to weave some original ones,but I'll try my best.
     
  7. Apr 7, 2013 #6
    Actually I did weave something more than a catastrophe, there are 3 stories,the stories are deployed in 2085 or later.
    story 1:It's X initiative(I'll rename X to something else while officially writing), It's a supercomputer project,designed to prevent disasters,promote human lives. but one of its ground rules it's not to protect everyone, it's only for the greater good of many,and then "retire" the less unstable dangerous people using an indiscoverable method, by that time the "thing to thing" network had heavily deployed(currently called intelligent earth),the super computer had access into all the social thing to thing network, including not limited to all the public cameras and water supply chain in every nodes, and food supply chain in every nodes, power supply chain in every nodes(home electrical products,gas supply,even some of people's home's electronic doors.) the supercomputer's power is not limited to use those "thing to thing" network's node to "retire" people, but rather to calculate people's social connections and reactions to define who are socially incompatible,and even to use the people's chain of reaction to create conflict between the socially incompatible people, which either leads them to death or jail. supercomputer's ground rule is also strictly to prevent population explosion, and to maintain the harmonious world. and at that time android(robot) had greatly developed as a basic tool for home uses, to assist people's daily lives, it is heavily coded in every aspect using different install-able code to assist people doing from basic to advanced work,software for android like "advanced human emotion simulator" is one example that had been used in story 1, that the leading character(another our one scientist(female)),fired her boss due to disagreement with work,and straight took the modern train to another city to one of her friend's home,(she's going to her friend's home because she doesn't want to see her parents yet)that her friend left her a gift(an male type android which tried to suit her feelings and tried to comfort her flirt with her a little bit then that upsets her,on the other hand her sister comes to see her,and then flirting with the android,that made her angry and turned the emotion simulation tool off,her sister take the"fine,i'll find another vibrator"as to respond),in her friend's home's wall has a monitor that shows the every kinds of supply usage regarding to payment(electric,gas,services,water...etc) and at that time water had becoming very expensive, so while our one scientist taking shower only with a newly invented low-temperature steam generator.
    in the end, tragically, the super computer considered our one scientist as the "social incompatible"and intended to retire her.

    I'll save something for your consideration. I hope you enjoy the story, and please point out if there's any flaws in the science deployment.
     
  8. Apr 8, 2013 #7
    Thanks for reading and helping me out, regarding to current great Sci-fi stories, such as “matrix” or “mass effect” (video game), they are basically sharing the same fundamental philosophy behind, that is, “nature random organic lives” against “Mechanism” which is created by humans or other kinds of organic life(correct me if I’m wrong).

    In my story, there’s will be no “against each other” yet, “Mechanism” remains to be a tool created by humans, it stays with the code, it doesn’t matter if it’s self-aware or not, its evilness or goodness totally depending on who is coding the supercomputer, The android is heavily developed by engineers where every single of our muscles is simulated by a massive center hydraulic pressure unit which also had a software interface called “openmotionX”(similar to opengl directx).

    In psychology (philosophy?) level, my story is tend to create an “overconfident arrogant -> doubt in front of the doom’s day-> regain faith and new life” path during the events happened in the future one after another. (Note: that faith is not related to any kinds of religious culture, and I’m not going to borrow that idea from “Battle Star Galactic”. Especially While I’m more convinced about human’s faith could be more depending on the intellectual strength regarding to survive in the future.)

    It is more like designing a story rather than writing a story, what I’m doing is to combine different components and scenarios together, cutting off redundant stuff while adding something more interesting and convincing.

    This is a big challenge for me, not only because I’m trying to build up a story more “original”, but also English is not my first language. So, in all the context I’ve posted, there might be syntax error, sentences don’t make sense, inappropriate choices of words scenarios would happen, so, if what I’m saying had ever offended anyone, I’d like to make an apology.

    We’ve already living in a very technologically advanced world. Knowledge and ideas sharing had been heavily developed in current circumstances. Referring to open source software and hardware societies. The “write/design once, run anywhere” idea had great influence to me regarding to my personal experiences. So, if you find any of my ideas interesting, please feel free to borrow/twist. There will be no questions asked. And I would be highly appreciated to anyone who would help me in finishing up this story.
     
  9. Apr 8, 2013 #8

    Filip Larsen

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    Gold Member

    If you haven't already, you may want to read Rule 34 by Charles Stross [1].

    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_(novel [Broken])
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  10. Apr 9, 2013 #9
    Thanks, Filip, I've just purchased that book on amazon, It's 4 times more expensive in my country. From the reader's review, it's basically almost with the same background. and the author's writing method is also similar. guess whoever had experienced the evolution of computer science would ultimately come up with the same dream.

    I'll come back here once I get the book.

    Regards
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
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