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A sort of free energy? Possbilble or not

  1. Apr 13, 2009 #1
    A sort of free energy??? Possbilble or not

    Hi there,

    Let me start off by saying that I am a College student at Penn College of Technology in Williamsport, PA and I am studying Tool making Technology and Automated Manufacturing, I'd like to refer to myself as THINKER. I've been creating my own remote control boats, planes, Custom Guitars, pickups, pickup winders, hydrogen generators, etc. ever since i was 12. I am very interested in Physics but not a genius at it plus I suck at math and formulas. I have a few questions? I want to create an electric scooter! and create it in such a way that it will recharge it self and want to know if it is possible. I know this is in such a way impossible or we would have electric cars and all that stuff that would make the world not depend on gasoline as a fuel source so greatly. But I have a few Ideas and designs I've been pondering over for sometime now, and would like to know how possible it is.

    first besides the basic frame and components of a scooter its self just the power system.

    THEORY 1.
    By using a car battery or small forklift battery as the DC power supply, a 1 horse power electric motor (DC) (1hp=746W) as the primary drive, a alternator to recharge the battery, a half or quarter horse electric motor (DC). and a small transformer, and a Kvar Unit. (AS SEEN ON TV)


    The one horse motor is connected with sprocket mounted to the back wheel and connected with a chain to the motor (simple). Naturally the the motor is hooked up to the battery, and also the Quarter or half horse motor is also connected to the battery, but this motor will not provide any propulsion energy. This motor will only be used to recharge the battery. The smaller motor will be geared in such a way that the alternator will spin faster than the motor. The transformer will be connected in between the battery and the alternator to step up the amps to hopefully charge the battery faster than normal. Now the Kvar unit will connected in between the primary drive motor and the battery reducing the amount of energy being consumed by the electric motor.

    NOW that is my theory..............WILL IT WORK at all, a little, maybe a few hours, or would if just over load the battery.

    THEORY 2.

    The same principle as in the first theory but minus the 2nd electric motor instead using a small weed eater motor but one that does not run Completely on gasoline or any at all. I have made a hydrogen generator for my 1991 Chevy Beretta GT and improved my miles per gallon by 6 miles with a V6 3.1L engine. Which I thought was pretty out standing going from 27 mpg to 33. Now if I made a Hydrogen Generator so efficient that it could power a small engine and geared it just right that it would charge the battery on its on.

    IF not. I could use gasoline but this would drastically reduce the amount of gasoline that I would use if combined with the hydrogen generator.

    PLEASE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED FOR RESPONE.........I have not worked out the math for this yet but have the knowledge to do so and gather the proper materials, but before I do all this I would like to know if Physics will allow any of this to happen.
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 13, 2009 #2


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    Gold Member

    Re: A sort of free energy??? Possbilble or not

    NARITT88, if a system like yours worked, major manufacturers would be at your door waving wads of cash, basically no matter how you drive your recharging system it is using energy from the primary source that can not be totally recovered.
  4. Apr 13, 2009 #3


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    Staff: Mentor

    Re: A sort of free energy??? Possbilble or not

    You can't do that. An alternator requires a certain amount of torque and rpm to spin it and if you don't have the rpm you need so you gear it, then you won't have the torque you need. You can't get 1hp of electrical power by spinning a 1hp alternator with a 1/2 horsepower motor - you'll only get 1/2 horsepower.
    Transformers trade voltage for current and vice versa. You can't take a 12V output and "step up the amps" without losing the volts.
    Though there are some complexities about the hydrogen generators, it is unlikely that you have actually realized that kind of gain. Hydrogen injection can improve an engine's efficiency, but not enough to overcome the energy required to make it.

    I don't know how far you are into engineering, but an engineering education should provide you the tools to analyze these ideas yourself. When analyzing a thermodynamic system, you start with a conservation of energy statement to relate the inputs and outputs. Try that sort of analysis and you will find where you are erring.

    Here's how it works: Every individual device and total system has a COE statement where you sum the inputs on one side and the outputs on the other: Eout1+Eout2+Eout3+.....=Ein1+Ein2+Ein3+.... For your motor spinning alternator, charging battery, you get 0.5=1. This nonsensical result tells you your system doesn't function the way you hope it will. So you add a gearbox. But the gearbox's COE statement is 1=0.5. Also nonsensical. So you add a transformer...

    For each device, though, you'll need to look at the inner workings to understand why they don't do what you want them to. For a gearbox, you should look up the equation relating torque, rpm, and power and the concept of mechanical advantage.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
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